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Old 04-14-2012, 11:33 AM   #1
seanjo
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Default "Skintland" The Economists View on Scottish Independence.

http://www.economist.com/node/21552564




Scottish independence

It’ll cost you

IN 1698 the nobles and landowners of the Kingdom of Scotland tried to elevate their country to a world trading nation by colonising the isthmus of Panama. The Darien scheme failed and nearly bankrupted the country. Within a decade Scotland had signed an Act of Union with England to create the United Kingdom of Great Britain. Scots found it tough in the 18th century to be a small nation in a globalising world. But nationalists are an optimistic bunch, and they would dearly like to have another go. In two years’ time the people of Scotland will be asked whether they want to become an independent sovereign state. It is not often that a 300-year-old union is broken, so the vote will have ramifications far beyond a land of 5m people. Scottish independence could lead to a break-up of the United Kingdom. The Catalans, among other disaffected European groups, see Scottish independence as a harbinger of their own bid for nationhood. Other diverse nation-states watch, and worry.
Some of the arguments for and against Scottish independence are aimed at the heart. Alex Salmond’s pro-independence Scottish National Party (SNP) says Scotland has its own “society and nation” that could thrive with autonomy. It has also played on local resentment at being bossed around by posh Westminster politicians—so successfully that no politician with an English accent, let alone a plummy one, is likely to play a large part in the pro-union campaign. As for the unionists, they argue that Britain would be diminished on the world stage if Scotland were to go its own way. Petty resentments and centuries-ago battles notwithstanding, the nations have rubbed along pretty well over the years and have a glorious common history, they say. Why dissolve the marriage now?


article-2129426-129653CF000005DC-58_634x763.jpg


Every nation has its price
The political and cultural issues around independence are hotly debated. Yet fittingly, in the birthplace of Adam Smith economic arguments seem to weigh heaviest. Opinion polls suggest that they will determine whether or not Scots go for independence. One poll found that just 21% of Scots would favour independence if it would leave them £500 ($795) a year worse off, and only 24% would vote to stay in the union even if they would be less well off sticking with Britain. Almost everyone else would vote for independence if it brought in roughly enough money to buy a new iPad, and against it if not.
Opinions on the economics of independence are starkly divided. Nationalists argue that, mostly thanks to North Sea oil and gas, Scotland subsidises the union and would be better off alone. The more sneering sort of unionist argues the opposite, that Scotland is a parasitic subsidy junkie.
Both are wrong, in the short term at least. Assuming it keeps the oil and gas extracted from under Scottish waters, an independent Scotland would currently gain roughly as much in taxes as it would lose in subsidies (see article).
The future, however, looks much dicier. This is a stormy economic world, and an independent Scotland would be a small, vulnerable barque. It would depend on oil for some 18% of its GDP, making it subject to shifts in global commodity prices. Though high oil and gas prices have pushed up tax revenues, if they drop production as well as receipts would plummet. The richest reserves have already been exploited, leaving inaccessible oil that becomes uneconomic when prices fall. North Sea production has been falling by about 6% a year for the past decade. Eventually the oil will run out entirely.
A small country is more vulnerable to other shocks. In 2008 the British government had to bail out Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS) and HBOS, Scotland’s two biggest banks. At its peak, RBS’s balance sheet was 13 times Scottish GDP. Edinburgh has faltered as a financial centre since, and would be hard to revive. There is a limit to how large a financial sector an independent Scotland—a new, small economy—could support. Mr Salmond has already rebuffed suggestions that he should take a share of RBS’s £187 billion of toxic assets.
By virtue of its size, an independent Scotland’s borrowing costs would almost certainly be higher: its bond market would be small and illiquid. But Scotland’s biggest problem could be its currency. The SNP’s enthusiasm for the euro has faded: it wants Scotland to stick with the pound for the moment. That would mean entering a monetary union without fiscal union, a set-up that has proved disastrous in Europe. Though Mr Salmond claims Scotland would enjoy automatic EU membership, European Commission lawyers are doubtful. A candidate Scotland would have to negotiate entry terms—and commit to join the euro one day.
Subtly, the nationalist argument has shifted. Some years ago the SNP envisaged Scotland joining an “arc of prosperity” of small, thriving countries such as Iceland and Ireland. After the banking and euro-zone crises, advocates for independence have pointed instead to the Nordic countries. The SNP implies that Scotland can combine a Scandinavian-style nurturing state—with free university tuition, free elderly care, free universal child care and more generous pensions—with a thriving business sector. An independent Scotland would hope to lure businesses through low corporation taxes, hucksterism and a dose of industrial policy—something the SNP says cannot be safely left to a government in far-off London.
Small countries can indeed pull in foreign investment: just look at Ireland. But Scotland would struggle to attract enough to pay for such a generous state. The country would not be the only one bidding for footloose global capital: one competitor would be Britain, which is cutting corporation taxes swiftly.
If Scots really want independence for political or cultural reasons, they should go for it. National pride is impossible to price. But if they vote for independence they should do so in the knowledge that their country could end up as one of Europe’s vulnerable, marginal economies. In the 18th century, Edinburgh’s fine architecture and its Enlightenment role earned it the nickname “Athens of the North”. It would be a shame if that name became apt again for less positive reasons.
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Old 04-14-2012, 11:35 AM   #2
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http://www.economist.com/node/21552572

The economics of home rule


The Scottish play

Scotland could probably go it alone now, but the economics of independence are steadily worsening

IN THE debate over whether Scotland should be independent, each side has for years lobbed economic grenades at the other. The pro-independence Scottish National Party (SNP) broke into mainstream politics in the 1970s with the slogan, “It’s Scotland’s Oil”. Alex Salmond, Scotland’s first minister and SNP leader, calls it “larceny” that revenues from oil and gas production, most of which comes from Scottish waters, have stuffed London’s coffers for the past 40 years. George Osborne, Britain’s chancellor, retorts that Scotland would be the poorer for secession.
So would an independent Scotland be an impoverished backwater or a land flowing with oil and money? A precise answer is impossible, since Whitehall does not count all of Britain’s revenue and spending streams by geography. Scotland gets a block grant from Westminster, but some things, such as welfare and defence, are paid for directly. But a close reading of the figures suggests an answer, which is less dramatic than either staunch nationalists or unionists might hope.
Scotland’s accounts of revenue and expenditure, based on Treasury data, show that it is not a ward of the state, grossly subsidised from Westminster. In fact it performs better than all regions outside the south-east of England, and has done particularly well in the past decade (see chart). In 2010-11 Scotland’s GDP was £145 billion ($225 billion) including a geographical share of North Sea oil and gas, around 10% of Britain’s, with 8.4% of the population.
Historically Scotland has received bigger grants per head from central government than Wales, for example—in part a tacit acknowledgment that it contributes handsomely to oil revenues, which in 2010-11 amounted to £8.8 billion. An independent Scotland would lose that subsidy, but gain the right to collect taxes on hydrocarbons locally. For the moment, Scotland’s day-to-day accounts would look little different to now. But the argument does not end there.
Not so long ago, North Sea oil and gas would have made Scotland rich, had the nation been able to seize it. Declassified documents show that, in the 1970s, Treasury officials reckoned Scotland could comfortably have paid its own way—a big reason the government was so alarmed by rising nationalism. The situation is now more finely balanced. And there are four big reasons to question Scotland’s longer-term prospects.

Oil and trouble (Salmond’s bubble)

The first problem is oil. An independent Scotland would rely heavily on oil and gas—in 2010-11 offshore activity accounted for 18% of GDP. The equivalent share for the whole of Britain was just 1.8%. Norway is even more reliant on hydrocarbons, but it has far more oil and has for over 20 years been setting funds aside for the day the stuff runs out. Britain has no such retirement fund on which an independent Scotland could draw.
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Old 04-14-2012, 03:13 PM   #3
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The immature cover-page alone has probably just racked up another few thousand independance votes. Keep going Westminster(with all your lackeys and flunkeys from the old-tie), you would think it's what you actually want. The SNP doesn't actually have to say, or do, anything since London seems to be doing all their hard work
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Old 04-14-2012, 06:55 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peekay View Post
The immature cover-page alone has probably just racked up another few thousand independance votes. Keep going Westminster(with all your lackeys and flunkeys from the old-tie), you would think it's what you actually want. The SNP doesn't actually have to say, or do, anything since London seems to be doing all their hard work
Which begs the question, why on earth would you want a third question (devomax)?

Wouldn't surprise me in the least if this is what Westminster wants.
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Old 04-14-2012, 09:14 PM   #5
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The article it's self wasn't too bad but the front page picture was a bit much.
I guess sales are waning at the economist and some publicity was needed.
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Old 04-14-2012, 09:19 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by st3 View Post
The article it's self wasn't too bad but the front page picture was a bit much.
I guess sales are waning at the economist and some publicity was needed.
Aye the article was good, as for the picture, it should be taken with a pinch of salt, as it was meant to be.
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Old 04-14-2012, 11:40 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanjo View Post
Which begs the question, why on earth would you want a third question (devomax)?

Because it looks as if that's what most folk want so by putting it in it means a massive % of the nation aren't disenfranchised.

It's called democracy seanjo!
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Old 04-15-2012, 09:53 AM   #8
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"Give me liberty or £500"

Quote:
Nearly 700 years later, the Scottish Social Attitudes survey asked what respondents would think about independence for Scotland if it would make them £500 a year better off. They favoured separation by 65 per cent to 24 per cent. If independence would make them £500 a year worse off, however, it would be rejected by 66 per cent to 21 per cent. Yet £500 is less than 2 per cent of average Scottish household income.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/59f6f88c-8...#axzz1s6DlXYvX
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Old 04-19-2012, 12:25 AM   #9
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i support Scottish independent, it doesn't really make a difference to ordinary people in England and they still want to be in the united kingdom, they just want to leave the act of union. the queen would still be head of state and commander in chief. its worth remembering that the united kingdom was formed when the king James the 2ed of Scotland became king of England when queen Elizabeth the first didn't have a kid.

The United Kingdom: 25 July 1603
Acts of Union: 1707 <----- this is what is been voted on
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Old 04-20-2012, 11:43 PM   #10
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am i conversation killer
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