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Old 06-15-2018, 03:33 AM   #21
ericredbeard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Parnitzke View Post
With anybody, actually, including all of them as well.
The USA and Trump has clearly shown that the USA is controlled by the Neo-Cons
and by AIPAC.
See:
http://mearsheimer.uchicago.edu/pdfs/A0040.pdf

Thereby, the USA is not any remotely honest nor any truly independent broker for any true, nor just, nor fair, nor moral peace, in the Middle East, whatsoever.
...whenever you take a break from vilifying the US role in the Middle East, you can tell us who is "a truly independent broker for any "true", "fair", and "moral", peace in the Middle East. Russia, that country which invaded Afghanistan, that cradle of liberty, fairness, and morality which is tearing Ukraine apart and which poisons dissenting journalists with radioactive contamination? China, that country which massacred its own democracy protesters in Tienanmen Square and persecutes Falun Gong adherents? The UN, that body which sat on its hands for months while Rwandans hacked other Rwandans to death, that body which allows Saudi Arabia a seat of its Commission on the Status of Women (ffs you can't make this stuff up!) and its Human Rights Commission, while continuing Saudi abuses of women and foreign guest workers are well known and documented? The EU, which watched for years while former Yugoslavia was wracked with ethnic cleansing, genocide, and atrocity while doing nothing?

C'mon, offer up your "true, fair, and moral" champion which has the juice to end the genocidal violence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Parnitzke View Post
True, but, our USA influence is diminished with any such idiotic, tyrannical, and immoral actions.
So our status is diminished from #1 influence in the world to #1 influence in the world. lol

The US has sat down with representatives of both the Israelis and Palestinians over and over, and the only thing which has been resolved is that the Arabs want Israel destroyed and they will not stop trying to accomplish that end. It's a non starter. The whole world recognizes that. Aside from some token/meaningless votes in the UN, that's as far as world concern with the issue is ever going to go: the Palestinians don't want to peacefully coexist with Israel, so that's that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Parnitzke View Post
Yes, and no, the actual facts are that Israeli interests and USA's and West's interests do clash.
The only actual "conceit" is the false claim of "JS's" that they don't clash.
US interests seem to clash a bit more often with Al Qaeda, ISIS, The Muslim Brotherhood, Hezbollah, and Hamas, say, than they clash with Israel, eh? Or does it just seem that way? LOL.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Parnitzke View Post
Not quite!

And that answer to your questions would be "the American People as a Whole".

Not AIPAC. Not the Neo-Cons. Not the minority of "JS" or the usual suspects:
the Malignant Narcissists and all of the psychopaths of the Mosaic Distinction.

That would be actually both quite all new and very refreshing for a change.
Occupy Peace!
See:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lb4_FyemOVo
And:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgIhv6qfz2Q
And:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epyMLFUGTBw
You're living in a "Hope And Change Speech' type fantasy where "truth, "justice", and "brotherly love" make the world go around. The world has been doing without them for thousands of years, and will go on without them for at least several hundred more. Power, power, and power make the world go around. The people who have produced more Nobel prize winners and more influential thinkers per capita during the last two centuries simply have more power than a people with more throat-slitting boy-sodomizing suicide bombing terrorist nutjobs per capita than any other. Go figure.

As for the "American People As A Whole", they care more about who wins the Superbowl than they do about whether Palestinians are being oppressed by Israel, or whether Palestinians are murdering Israeli citizens whenever they get the chance. You're talking about a nation which watched Soviet domination of Eastern Europe crush democracy for decades without intervening. You're talking about a "people as a whole" who would prefer that all Native Americans simply assimilate into mainstream American society and quit posing as authentic noble savages while staying drunk, staying unemployed, and staying on reservations where there are no jobs while demanding payments because of who their grandparents' grandparents were...regardless of the oppression and genocides committed against their nations.

The chief interests of the "American People As A Whole" include cheaper fuel, economic prosperity for Joe Average, and freedom from religious nutjobs murdering them at home and abroad.....none of which have anything to do with whether the Palestinians and their religious nutjob friends get to wipe out Israel. The "American People As A Whole" don't care a tiny fraction as much as you do about some group in the Middle East getting screwed over, be they Copts in Egypt, Assyrian Christians in Syria, Blacks in Libya, or Palestinians in Gaza/the West Bank/Israel.

Like it or not, those are the "actual facts".
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Old 06-15-2018, 05:28 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericredbeard View Post
...whenever you take a break from vilifying the US role in the Middle East, you can tell us who is "a truly independent broker for any "true", "fair", and "moral", peace in the Middle East. Russia, that country which invaded Afghanistan, that cradle of liberty, fairness, and morality which is tearing Ukraine apart and which poisons dissenting journalists with radioactive contamination? China, that country which massacred its own democracy protesters in Tienanmen Square and persecutes Falun Gong adherents? The UN, that body which sat on its hands for months while Rwandans hacked other Rwandans to death, that body which allows Saudi Arabia a seat of its Commission on the Status of Women (ffs you can't make this stuff up!) and its Human Rights Commission, while continuing Saudi abuses of women and foreign guest workers are well known and documented? The EU, which watched for years while former Yugoslavia was wracked with ethnic cleansing, genocide, and atrocity while doing nothing?

C'mon, offer up your "true, fair, and moral" champion which has the juice to end the genocidal violence.



So our status is diminished from #1 influence in the world to #1 influence in the world. lol

The US has sat down with representatives of both the Israelis and Palestinians over and over, and the only thing which has been resolved is that the Arabs want Israel destroyed and they will not stop trying to accomplish that end. It's a non starter. The whole world recognizes that. Aside from some token/meaningless votes in the UN, that's as far as world concern with the issue is ever going to go: the Palestinians don't want to peacefully coexist with Israel, so that's that.



US interests seem to clash a bit more often with Al Qaeda, ISIS, The Muslim Brotherhood, Hezbollah, and Hamas, say, than they clash with Israel, eh? Or does it just seem that way? LOL.




You're living in a "Hope And Change Speech' type fantasy where "truth, "justice", and "brotherly love" make the world go around. The world has been doing without them for thousands of years, and will go on without them for at least several hundred more. Power, power, and power make the world go around. The people who have produced more Nobel prize winners and more influential thinkers per capita during the last two centuries simply have more power than a people with more throat-slitting boy-sodomizing suicide bombing terrorist nutjobs per capita than any other. Go figure.

As for the "American People As A Whole", they care more about who wins the Superbowl than they do about whether Palestinians are being oppressed by Israel, or whether Palestinians are murdering Israeli citizens whenever they get the chance. You're talking about a nation which watched Soviet domination of Eastern Europe crush democracy for decades without intervening. You're talking about a "people as a whole" who would prefer that all Native Americans simply assimilate into mainstream American society and quit posing as authentic noble savages while staying drunk, staying unemployed, and staying on reservations where there are no jobs while demanding payments because of who their grandparents' grandparents were...regardless of the oppression and genocides committed against their nations.

The chief interests of the "American People As A Whole" include cheaper fuel, economic prosperity for Joe Average, and freedom from religious nutjobs murdering them at home and abroad.....none of which have anything to do with whether the Palestinians and their religious nutjob friends get to wipe out Israel. The "American People As A Whole" don't care a tiny fraction as much as you do about some group in the Middle East getting screwed over, be they Copts in Egypt, Assyrian Christians in Syria, Blacks in Libya, or Palestinians in Gaza/the West Bank/Israel.

Like it or not, those are the "actual facts".
So
Who do you think will win the super bowl
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Old 06-15-2018, 08:32 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adaptoman View Post
So
Who do you think will win the super bowl
LOL!
You win your banana!
Good one.

The actual and true answer is NOT THE FANS.
The NFL fans are just the dupes of the rubes.

The sucker that is born every minute, according to P.T. Barnum.
The vast majority of so-called "Boobus Americanus" or "Goyim",
by the Usual Suspects. Unfortunately, that is also a sad reality.
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Old 06-15-2018, 08:49 PM   #24
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Default I am actually doing no such thing at all, actually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericredbeard View Post
...whenever you take a break from vilifying the US role in the Middle East, you can tell us who is "a truly independent broker for any "true", "fair", and "moral", peace in the Middle East.
I am actually doing no such thing at all, actually.
It is quite clear that the "JS" tail is wagging the USA dog.
That "JS" tail is what I actually "vilify" and all rightfully so.
See:
http://www.euvolution.com/prometheis...upremacism.pdf

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericredbeard View Post
Russia, that country which invaded Afghanistan, that cradle of liberty, fairness, and morality which is tearing Ukraine apart and which poisons dissenting journalists with radioactive contamination?
When Russia was the USSR, correct.

The Federated Russians were not the ones actually responsible for tearing Ukraine apart.
See:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC7sm4xm9jM

And the USA and Israel and some other "so-called" Western nations have murdered their own fair share of "dissenting journalists", all with and without the use of such toxins too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericredbeard View Post
China, that country which massacred its own democracy protesters in Tienanmen Square and persecutes Falun Gong adherents?
Correct, as they are still Communists.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericredbeard View Post
The UN, that body which sat on its hands for months while Rwandans hacked other Rwandans to death, that body which allows Saudi Arabia a seat of its Commission on the Status of Women (ffs you can't make this stuff up!) and its Human Rights Commission, while continuing Saudi abuses of women and foreign guest workers are well known and documented?
Not quite.
The UN is hardly perfect, but, at least they condemned this and did not condone any such genocides, or as has the USA actually done with the Palestinians vs. the Israeli's and just so many times too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericredbeard View Post
The EU, which watched for years while former Yugoslavia was wracked with ethnic cleansing, genocide, and atrocity while doing nothing?
Correct, the EU was actually one of the ones behind the "de-evolution" of that nation.
See:
http://aei.pitt.edu/13910/1/Radeljic...n_Studies).pdf

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericredbeard View Post
C'mon, offer up your "true, fair, and moral" champion which has the juice to end the genocidal violence.
Gerald Celente and his "Occupy Peace" Movement in the USA.
See:
http://occupypeace.com/
Only in the USA is the real "power base" to effect/affect Israel to make peace.
The Israeli's do need the USA and NOT the other way around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericredbeard View Post

So our status is diminished from #1 influence in the world to #1 influence in the world. lol
Yes, that is quite ironic isn't it?
Unfortunately, the "JS" control the USA.
The USA has the actual power, but, just not the political will to do the right thing for either itself, the world, and nor for the Palestinians either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericredbeard View Post
The US has sat down with representatives of both the Israelis and Palestinians over and over, and the only thing which has been resolved is that the Arabs want Israel destroyed and they will not stop trying to accomplish that end. It's a non starter.
That's just complete nonsense.
Israel has no right to exist at all.
That is the actual non-starter here.

Either Israel exists as a Secular State allowing the Palestinians to return with equal rights
or there should be a two-state solution based upon the UN Mandate and prior to the 1948
creation of Israel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericredbeard View Post
The whole world recognizes that.
No, the "whole world" actually does not recognize Israels "right to exist", whatsoever.
In fact, most of the world really knows that it was created under just false pretenses.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ericredbeard View Post
Aside from some token/meaningless votes in the UN, that's as far as world concern with the issue is ever going to go: the Palestinians don't want to peacefully coexist with Israel, so that's that.
Actually, the world knows that the Israeli's are the ones that don't want to co-exist with the Palestinians, and that is quite clear from what the Israeli's have done to them firstly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericredbeard View Post
US interests seem to clash a bit more often with Al Qaeda, ISIS, The Muslim Brotherhood, Hezbollah, and Hamas, say, than they clash with Israel, eh? Or does it just seem that way? LOL.
Yes, they do "just seem that way" only because these were all created by both Israel and the USA. Those are the actual facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericredbeard View Post
Like it or not, those are the "actual facts".
Indeed, some were "actual facts", but, most of yours were just Israel Apologist lying and hypocritical propaganda.

Last edited by Paul Parnitzke; 06-18-2018 at 06:01 PM. Reason: Added links.
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Old 06-15-2018, 10:18 PM   #25
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paul, nobody read that


people have actual lives....
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Old 06-16-2018, 12:22 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by 3rd3y3 View Post
paul, nobody read that


people have actual lives....
I couldnt be bothered to read all that crap, so i didnt. But thanks to my eidetic memory i can tell you that... ITS THE JOOS!
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Old 06-16-2018, 02:48 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by 3rd3y3 View Post
paul, nobody read that


people have actual lives....
Quote:
Originally Posted by snipershot View Post
I couldnt be bothered to read all that crap, so i didnt. But thanks to my eidetic memory i can tell you that... ITS THE JOOS!
White noise?
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Old 06-16-2018, 09:05 AM   #28
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White noise?



https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wzjWIxXBs_s
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Old 06-16-2018, 11:02 AM   #29
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80 years ago Japan were slaughtering millions of civilians with bayonets, shovels and plague-infected fleas. They were invading any nation in their sphere that had resources they wanted and starving prisoners of war to death in forced labour operations. Their government was ready, willing and able to sacrifice every single human being in Japan in a suicidal and hopeless defence of a war they had obviously lost. Today, 80 years later, Japan is a civilized nation, a massive contributor to the world of technology, and a massive ally of the west.

This can happen with North Korea as well. More importantly, it can happen without being preceded by an enormous war. It can happen with diplomacy. Trump is making the first steps. That's what happened a few days ago. The first steps toward normal relations between North Korea and the rest of the world.

So once again I say... that awkward moment when the whole world is sneering at you and praying for you to fail, but nevertheless you plow ahead and get shit done.
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Old 06-16-2018, 01:27 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Daveypoo View Post
80 years ago Japan were slaughtering millions of civilians with bayonets, shovels and plague-infected fleas. They were invading any nation in their sphere that had resources they wanted and starving prisoners of war to death in forced labour operations. Their government was ready, willing and able to sacrifice every single human being in Japan in a suicidal and hopeless defence of a war they had obviously lost. Today, 80 years later, Japan is a civilized nation, a massive contributor to the world of technology, and a massive ally of the west.

This can happen with North Korea as well. More importantly, it can happen without being preceded by an enormous war. It can happen with diplomacy. Trump is making the first steps. That's what happened a few days ago. The first steps toward normal relations between North Korea and the rest of the world.

So once again I say... that awkward moment when the whole world is sneering at you and praying for you to fail, but nevertheless you plow ahead and get shit done.
The regime’s history of broken promises started in 1985 when it agreed to the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty. The treaty required that the country not receive or manufacture nuclear weapons or explosive devices and that it accept inspections and other safeguards to verify compliance. North Korea refused the safeguards and demanded that the U.S. remove its nuclear weapons from South Korea.

President George H.W. Bush met the demands and removed the weapons in 1991. Then in January 1992, the two Koreas signed a Joint Declaration of the Denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula, where North Korea again promised not to receive or manufacture nuclear weapons or possess uranium enrichment facilities.

The international community struggled to enforce safeguard provisions over the next two years. North Korea initially refused to allow the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) to inspect its facilities. Satellite images showed that the regime attempted to disguise the purpose of two facilities, which seemed to store nuclear waste, with trees and other camouflage.

The regime finalized an inspection agreement with the IAEA in February 1994, but North Korea still would not let the inspection team adequately inspect its facilities. It withdrew from the agreement with the IAEA after a few months.

The U.S. managed to negotiate an “Agreed Framework” later in 1994. North Korea agreed to halt its construction of nuclear facilities and production of weapons-grade plutonium in exchange for the U.S. easing trade restrictions, supplying fuel, helping finance light-water nuclear power reactors and moving toward establishing diplomatic relations.

U.S.-North Korean relations remained stable for a while, but the Agreed Framework broke down in the early 2000s. The U.S. delayed easing sanctions for years and stopped supplying fuel, and the light-water power reactors were never built.

Some of the destabilization had to do with policy shifts during the U.S. transition of power from President Bill Clinton to President George W. Bush. Clinton canceled a trip to North Korea just before Bush took office. Bush stopped talks with North Korea, and famously declared it, Iran and Iraq an “axis of evil” in his first State of the Union address.

Most importantly, the U.S. assessed that North Korea was cheating on its Agreed Framework by trying to develop weapons-grade nuclear material through another method. “We had monitoring of all the eggs in one basket, but not the rest of the country,” Klingner said.

A few months after the U.S. confronted the regime, North Korea withdrew from the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty in 2003. Later in the year, it said that it would show its nuclear “deterrent” to the public “when an appropriate time comes.”

The U.S. seemed to make some diplomatic progress in a series of Six-Party Talks between North and South Korea, the U.S., Russia, China and Japan. As a result of the talks, North Korea said in 2005 it would stop pursuing nuclear weapons.

The talks hit a roadblock when the U.S. placed restrictions on Banco Delta Asia, a bank in Macau, which the U.S. suspected of laundering money to North Korea. The move angered the regime. North Korea tested what the U.S. thought were long-range ballistic missiles in 2006. The U.S. called the tests “provocative behavior” and a violation of its promises to not test missiles. A few months later, North Korea announced that it had completed its first nuclear test.
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