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Old 12-30-2015, 12:08 PM   #21
seanjo
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Originally Posted by ericredbeard View Post
What do you think those American riflemen were before they put on the uniforms? It's ok, I understand that that the English mind finds it neigh impossible to accept that mere peasants with rifles can slaughter "proper troops" armed with muskets...even when the troops are wearing brightly colored uniforms while marching in the open. It just isn't proper to those conditioned by their masters to think that commoners aren't fit until they've been trained by their superior! The immigrant untrained with rifles were used as artillerymen, engineers, and were armed with muskets and shitguns when available. Otherwise, recruits were encouraged to show up with their own rifles...and utilized as riflemen when they showed themselves proficient.

I'm sure that the French nobility had similar difficulties accepting their slaughters at the wrong end of English longbows such as the one at Agincourt in 1415. King Henry III encouraged his peon subjects to develop proficiency with the bow back in 1363 by officially declaring
"Whereas the people of our realm, rich and poor alike, were accustomed formerly in their games to practise archery – whence by God's help, it is well known that high honour and profit came to our realm, and no small advantage to ourselves in our warlike enterprises... that every man in the same country, if he be able-bodied, shall, upon holidays, make use, in his games, of bows and arrows... and so learn and practise archery." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_longbow

England profited from their expertise, just as the US profited greatly from proficient marksmen.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvin_C._York




Tell it to the men sent to take New Orleans. LOL

The impressment of American sailors into the British Navy ended as a result of that war. That was also a key objective from the American perspective.
Impressment went both ways.




LOL at the butt hurt...."oh my made up history is being questioned woe is me!"
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Old 12-30-2015, 03:41 PM   #22
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Impressment went both ways.




LOL at the butt hurt...."oh my made up history is being questioned woe is me!"
How ironic. The OP points out that each combatant sees different aspects of the same conflict as a victory, which is exactly what is going on in this thread. The difference is that Brits have to insist that the Americans lost in every aspect. This, in spite of the fact that the Battle of New Orleans was a manifest defeat for Britain....and rather than admit it, Brits then "LOL at the butthurt" while questioning established, researched history without a single citation of their own. History repeats itself.

Please show references for American impressment of British sailors. British injustice at sea is a well established fact, or do you deny that too? So well established, that books and movies were made on the theme.



According to WinstonChurchill.org, the quote "The only traditions of the Royal Navy are rum, sodomy and the lash,"¯ was never actually said by him. His assistant, Anthony Montague-Browne, said that Churchill wished it was his quote.
http://mentalfloss.com/article/31522...as-really-said

Read Billy Bud, by Herman Melville.
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Old 12-30-2015, 06:55 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericredbeard View Post
How ironic. The OP points out that each combatant sees different aspects of the same conflict as a victory, which is exactly what is going on in this thread. The difference is that Brits have to insist that the Americans lost in every aspect. This, in spite of the fact that the Battle of New Orleans was a manifest defeat for Britain....and rather than admit it, Brits then "LOL at the butthurt" while questioning established, researched history without a single citation of their own. History repeats itself.

Please show references for American impressment of British sailors. British injustice at sea is a well established fact, or do you deny that too? So well established, that books and movies were made on the theme.



According to WinstonChurchill.org, the quote "The only traditions of the Royal Navy are rum, sodomy and the lash,"¯ was never actually said by him. His assistant, Anthony Montague-Browne, said that Churchill wished it was his quote.
http://mentalfloss.com/article/31522...as-really-said

Read Billy Bud, by Herman Melville.
Impressment (which was only legal in the UK if we were at war) was just an excuse to start a war that the US meant to use to take Canada, it failed. Most of the Sailors impressed by the British were (in their eyes) deserters, and in most cases this was true, but for those that had a legitimate claim to US citizenship there was a panel based in England with the cooperation of the US.

The Royal Navy was no more brutal or less than any other Navy of the time including the US Navy, it was how things were done.

Impressment didn't stop because of the war of 1812, it stopped because there was peace.

The only real losers in this war were the Native Americans that Britain was going to nagotiate a strip of land for, tthat went by the wayside after the Battle of New Orleans....what does that say about an emerging US?

https://www.archives.gov/publication...pressment.html
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Old 12-30-2015, 06:59 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by ericredbeard View Post

England profited from their expertise, just as the US profited greatly from proficient marksmen.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvin_C._York



By the way, just LOLOLOL at that misguided piece of historical bollocks.
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Old 12-30-2015, 09:36 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanjo View Post
Impressment (which was only legal in the UK if we were at war) was just an excuse to start a war that the US meant to use to take Canada, it failed. Most of the Sailors impressed by the British were (in their eyes) deserters, and in most cases this was true, but for those that had a legitimate claim to US citizenship there was a panel based in England with the cooperation of the US.

The Royal Navy was no more brutal or less than any other Navy of the time including the US Navy, it was how things were done.

Impressment didn't stop because of the war of 1812, it stopped because there was peace.

The only real losers in this war were the Native Americans that Britain was going to nagotiate a strip of land for, tthat went by the wayside after the Battle of New Orleans....what does that say about an emerging US?

https://www.archives.gov/publication...pressment.html
There was peace and impressment before the War Of 1812, so if you're trying to claim that the British impressed American citizens only because of and during the war you're full of misguided historical bollocks. Keep digging man!

The Americans wanted to kick the British out of Canada, and that effort failed, while the British wanted to wrest control of the Louisiana territory away from the United States, and that effort failed too. That is usually known between gentlemen as A DRAW. Britain was impressing American citizens before the war, but ceased the practice afterwards....and that is commonly viewed as A WIN. Britain burned down the White House during both the Revolutionary War and the War Of 1812...and in neither case did that result in Britain achieving anything lasting...just as Napoleon marched into the burning remains of Moscow, only to leave in defeat. But I'm sure you knew that...from your extensive familiarity with military history.

Quote:
Originally Posted by seanjo View Post
By the way, just LOLOLOL at that misguided piece of historical bollocks.
Alvin Cullum York (December 13, 1887 – September 2, 1964), known also by his rank, Sergeant York, was one of the most decorated soldiers of the United States Army in World War I.[1] He received the Medal of Honor for leading an attack on a German machine gun nest, taking 32 machine guns, killing 20 German soldiers, and capturing 132 others. This action occurred during the United States-led portion of the broader Meuse-Argonne Offensive in France masterminded by French Marshal Ferdinand Foch to breach the Hindenburg line and make the opposing German forces surrender.

.....Alvin Cullum York was born in a two room log cabin near Pall Mall, Tennessee.[2] He was the third of eleven children born to William Uriah York (15 May 1863 – 17 November 1911) and Mary Elizabeth (Brooks) York (1866-1943).[3][4] William Uriah York was born in Jamestown, Tennessee, to Uriah York and Eliza Jane Livingston, both travelers from Buncombe County, North Carolina.[5]... William York and Mary Brooks married on December 25, 1881, and had eleven children. ... The York family is of mainly English ancestry, with Scots-Irish ancestry as well.[6][7] The York family resided in the Indian Creek area of Fentress County.[5] The family was impoverished, with William York working as a blacksmith to supplement the family income. The men of the York family harvested their own food, while the mother made all the family clothing.[5] The York sons attended school for only nine months[2] and withdrew from education because William York wanted his sons to help him work the family farm and hunt small game to feed the family.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvin_C._York
(another mythic rural farmer/marksman cum hero, among many American heroes...)

By the way, that link was posted earlier, but I included the movie clip against the possibility that you can't read....LOL
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Last edited by ericredbeard; 12-31-2015 at 04:50 AM.
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Old 12-31-2015, 02:35 AM   #26
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One other little thing everybody is ignoring, England banned all imports of finished goods from the US after the War of Independence, and that any American flagged ship, that may be sailing to any port may be boarded, searched, any crew member indentured, and the ship and cargo seized for any cause, without compensation. The ship would be sailed to England, with a prize crew. The original crew would be kept in prison, under hard labor, and it usually took 1 to 2 years for them to come before the Naval court.
Most of the ships taken were owned and manned by Quakers, which by extension had been British subjects before the war. Even a given name could condemn a man to be indentured. and whoa unto any free or slaved african man, they would instantly be sold into slavery, usually to Spain or Denmark. Any indentured/slaved white man usually got sold too.
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Old 12-31-2015, 03:24 AM   #27
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Heads up for January 1st, Minutemen.
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Old 12-31-2015, 03:30 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericredbeard View Post
There was peace and impressment before the War Of 1812, so if you're trying to claim that the British impressed American citizens only because of and during the war you're full of misguided historical bollocks. Keep digging man!

The Americans wanted to kick the British out of Canada, and that effort failed, while the British wanted to wrest control of the Louisiana territory away from the United States, and that effort failed too. That is usually known between gentlemen as A DRAW. Britain was impressing American citizens before the war, but ceased the practice afterwards....and that is commonly viewed as A WIN. Britain burned down the White House during both the Revolutionary War and the War Of 1812...and in neither case did that result in Britain achieving anything lasting...just as Napoleon marched into the burning remains of Moscow, only to leave in defeat. But I'm sure you knew that...from your extensive familiarity with military history.



Alvin Cullum York (December 13, 1887 – September 2, 1964), known also by his rank, Sergeant York, was one of the most decorated soldiers of the United States Army in World War I.[1] He received the Medal of Honor for leading an attack on a German machine gun nest, taking 32 machine guns, killing 20 German soldiers, and capturing 132 others. This action occurred during the United States-led portion of the broader Meuse-Argonne Offensive in France masterminded by French Marshal Ferdinand Foch to breach the Hindenburg line and make the opposing German forces surrender.

.....Alvin Cullum York was born in a two room log cabin near Pall Mall, Tennessee.[2] He was the third of eleven children born to William Uriah York (15 May 1863 – 17 November 1911) and Mary Elizabeth (Brooks) York (1866-1943).[3][4] William Uriah York was born in Jamestown, Tennessee, to Uriah York and Eliza Jane Livingston, both travelers from Buncombe County, North Carolina.[5]... William York and Mary Brooks married on December 25, 1881, and had eleven children. ... The York family is of mainly English ancestry, with Scots-Irish ancestry as well.[6][7] The York family resided in the Indian Creek area of Fentress County.[5] The family was impoverished, with William York working as a blacksmith to supplement the family income. The men of the York family harvested their own food, while the mother made all the family clothing.[5] The York sons attended school for only nine months[2] and withdrew from education because William York wanted his sons to help him work the family farm and hunt small game to feed the family.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvin_C._York
(another mythic rural farmer/marksman cum hero, among many American heroes...)

By the way, that link was posted earlier, but I included the movie clip against the possibility that you can't read....LOL
Britain was at war constantly over the 17 and 1800's, impressment was legal in Britain under the articles of war. After Waterloo and the treaty of Ghent we had peace...ergo no impressment.

I'm questioning the Sgt York quote, about marksmen, not questioning Sgt York's brilliant feat.
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Last edited by seanjo; 12-31-2015 at 03:39 PM.
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Old 01-10-2016, 03:39 AM   #29
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so many on this forum confused, from the M.E section, Iraq, to this "Rest of the world". Anybody needing any questions answered to any part of the M.E message me, otherwise don't stereotype anybody . Sorry sea etc, but Zionism seems to be bigger than ever
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