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Old 04-11-2016, 01:55 PM   #1
Greatest I am
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Default Was God creating Satan a good idea?

Was God creating Satan a good idea?

Eden and creation seemed to be going along quite well for God and man until Satan was cast into Eden by God. God would have been in charge of who he allowed into the Garden of Eden. After all, God would have kept a firm control of who entered his new day care so as to insure the wellbeing of Adam and Eve.

Being all knowing, God already knew that Satan, with Godís own power of deception, would successfully tempt Eve to eat of the tree of all possible knowledge.

It almost seems as if God wanted us to and planned for us to fail. Perhaps that is why the Church called Adams sin a happy fault and necessary sin.

Christian dogma, the opposite of Jewish dogma, has Satan as Godís nemesis and arch rival for the souls of mankind. Godís foreknowledge would have told him that Satan would cause him to condemn the vast majority of his beloved souls to hell and death and thus play into Satanís hands. This to me seems like God creating a huge amount of grief for himself and mankind, unless God truly wanted man to fail, --- and sin was a happy fault and necessary sin as the Church says.

Did Adam and Eve actually do what God really wanted them to do, and was God creating Satan a good idea?

We are told by the Church and scriptures to emulate God.

Should all parents do as God did and create a situation of failure for their children so as to insure that they too have the happy fault and necessary sin that makes them fail?

Why was it important for God to insure that we failed?

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Old 04-12-2016, 07:53 PM   #2
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I don't think God wanted to insure our failure by inserting Satan into the garden. My 'interpretation' of what happened to man and his fall is directly from Daniel Quinn's Ishmael.


The Question (ID Number 619)...

What steps led you to question the conventional reading of the stories of the Fall and Cain and Abel in Genesis?


Quote:
Many readers of ISHMAEL (including clergy of all faiths, seminarians, and even biblical scholars) have written to me to confess that my theory makes more sense than any other they've seen. But I repeat that it is "just" a theory -- and will never be proven as a fact. The only way to judge it is to ask: Does it make sense of the facts that are known -- and does it make more sense than any OTHER theory?
Full answer:

http://www.ishmael.org/Interaction/Q...CFM?Record=619

My opining on this would be nothing more than plagiarizing from Quinn so I won't try. He elaborates more in Ishmael. My 'walk' in Christianity was never the same after reading Quinn.
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Old 04-12-2016, 08:13 PM   #3
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The fall I referred to was of Adam and Eve. Not Cain and Abel.

But even with that, you have not spoken to the question of the O.P. It pertains to Satan.

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Old 04-12-2016, 08:38 PM   #4
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But God didn't create Satan. Satan doesn't exist, neither does a God. Is this hypothetical? That's important to me, because if you're serious, i can just ignore the thread. But if it's hypothetical, we can have some fun with this.
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Old 04-12-2016, 08:43 PM   #5
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I'll go with hypothetical. If this actually happened, it would be my theory that God and Satan would be the same entity. God has a multiple personality disorder.

Satan is bad Ash. God is good Ash. Quote2.gif
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Old 04-12-2016, 09:00 PM   #6
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6-26controversyevildead.jpg

ash-vs-evil-dead-bruce-campbell-tv-show.jpg


yup.
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Old 04-12-2016, 09:02 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Greatest I am View Post
The fall I referred to was of Adam and Eve. Not Cain and Abel.

But even with that, you have not spoken to the question of the O.P. It pertains to Satan.

Regards
DL
This is from the link I posted regarding Adam and Eve.

Quote:
I made it my business. I began with the assumption that the historians' account and the account in Genesis both referred to the same event. The difference between them was that the historians viewed the event as a great step forward for humanity, while the authors of Genesis viewed it as a punishment and a curse for humanity. This punishment and curse resulted from the acquisition of "the knowledge of good and evil." Theologians and biblical scholars really had no tools to use to figure out what was so wrong about having the knowledge of good and evil. Some speculated that knowing good and evil is a metaphor for losing your innocence; for them, Adam and Eve lost their innocence by losing their innocence, and having lost their innocence no longer belonged in the Garden of Eden and so were driven out to live by the sweat of their brows -- as agriculturalists.

Anthropologists know all about people who live the way Adam and Eve lived before the Fall. They're hunter-gatherers. But, being anthropologists rather than theologians or biblical scholars, it was not their business to consider the possibility that the story of Adam and Eve was the story of the transition from hunting and gathering to agriculture in the Fertile Crescent -- and of course it wasn't the business of theologians or biblical scholars either.

I made it my business. I learned, for example, that missionaries reported that, like Adam and Eve before the Fall, their aboriginal clients didn't have the knowledge of good and evil. It was something that had to be taught to them, and they conceived it to be their duty to do so (despite the fact that God had expressly forbidden this knowledge to Adam and Eve). To us the forms good/evil and right/wrong seem almost innate to the human mind; they aren't; they're special to our culture (though that's a different story).
My 'translation' would be simply that Adam rejected the gift of the garden, eating from the tree of life, while choosing the forbidden Apple from the tree of knowledge. That knowledge was based on Adam taking the power of the gods into his own hands, namely the power of life and death. This power and fall was directly attributable to his sons and their actions. Did you ever ask yourself why God rejected Cains offering of the harvest but accepted Able's? It's not metaphoric but directly related to humans being 'thrown out' of the garden. I can't help you(yes I'm trying to help you) more than that.
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Old 04-13-2016, 01:25 AM   #8
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But God didn't create Satan. Satan doesn't exist, neither does a God. Is this hypothetical? That's important to me, because if you're serious, i can just ignore the thread. But if it's hypothetical, we can have some fun with this.
It was written to speak to theists about from their belief system so in that sense, yes it is serious as it seeks to resolve some of the craziness in the story when read literally.

I am well aware that Stan and Yahweh are imaginary and do not exist.

I am a Gnostic Christian and we traditionally argue against the Christian position as we find it quite immoral.

In this case, not necessarily immoral, but certainly strange as the originators of the myth, the Jews, saw our elevation and not our fall.

Seems that you guys have chased all the theist away though.

If you are not a theist then we will likely agree on most points.

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Old 04-13-2016, 01:26 AM   #9
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I'll go with hypothetical. If this actually happened, it would be my theory that God and Satan would be the same entity. God has a multiple personality disorder.

Satan is bad Ash. God is good Ash. Attachment 142910
I cannot agree because I see God as evil and that is why we Gnostic Christians call him a vile demiurge.

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Old 04-13-2016, 01:27 AM   #10
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Why?

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