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Old 04-14-2012, 12:38 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by MrsShrodingersBox View Post
Santorum promised he would introduce legislation that defines life at conception, marriage as between a man and a woman, and that he would prosecute the porn industry based on obscenity laws

And chances are he's going to make another go-around next election. So we'll have to deal with him, just like Obama, trying to impose his religious values on us.
How's that trying to impose belief?

All legislation contains one form of morality or another -- and it would be absurd to say that a Christian should not take a position which is consistent with his beliefs. The alternative is what - to ask them to take a legislative position which is contrary to his belief? It makes no more sense to ask a Christian to avoid policy decisions consistent with his beliefs than it would to ask an atheist to do so.

For the most part, conservative Christians who are in office, or seeking office, are seeking two things - legislation which is consistent with their beliefs as to how society is best to be governed, and limited government. On the flip side, most non-religious liberals are seeking two things - legislation which is consistent with their beliefs as to how society is best to be governed, and extensive government regulations.

In a democracy we all vote our consciences, and seek to elect those who hold opinions consistent withi out belief structure. Government is therefore by majority mores, within the confines of the constitution. If a religious conservative majority were to get elected, and to pass legislation which "forced belief" (e.g. You all must worship God on Sunday) I would full well expect it to be struck down as unconstitutional.

By the way, none of the examples you cited have anything to do with imposing ones faith on another.
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Old 04-14-2012, 01:04 AM   #62
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Name one republican/conservative president that reduced government.
They're all socialist liberals. We're fucked.


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Originally Posted by treefish View Post
How's that trying to impose belief?

All legislation contains one form of morality or another -- and it would be absurd to say that a Christian should not take a position which is consistent with his beliefs. The alternative is what - to ask them to take a legislative position which is contrary to his belief? It makes no more sense to ask a Christian to avoid policy decisions consistent with his beliefs than it would to ask an atheist to do so.

For the most part, conservative Christians who are in office, or seeking office, are seeking two things - legislation which is consistent with their beliefs as to how society is best to be governed, and limited government. On the flip side, most non-religious liberals are seeking two things - legislation which is consistent with their beliefs as to how society is best to be governed, and extensive government regulations.

In a democracy we all vote our consciences, and seek to elect those who hold opinions consistent withi out belief structure. Government is therefore by majority mores, within the confines of the constitution. If a religious conservative majority were to get elected, and to pass legislation which "forced belief" (e.g. You all must worship God on Sunday) I would full well expect it to be struck down as unconstitutional.

By the way, none of the examples you cited have anything to do with imposing ones faith on another.
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Old 04-14-2012, 01:08 AM   #63
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Name one republican/conservative president that reduced government.
They're all socialist liberals. We're fucked.
Ronald Reagan.
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Old 04-14-2012, 01:09 AM   #64
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There are leftist religious people as well. All the Southern Baptist people I grew up with in the 50s were Democrats, and I'm certain there are many, probably more today. I believe it is probably right or should I say it is 'correct' to say that every 'Black' church is filled with Democrats. There is nothing worse than Religious leftist nut job... many of them contend that Jesus would have been a Democrat; That is OK with the leaders of the Democrat party and the media because it suits their purpose.

It is simply that many Americans have come to believe religiosity is the domain of the right when it comes to certain issues and every issue where 'morality' or so called Victorian core values come into play is ascribed to the right by the media, and the democrat party. It is certainly true that many religious people are anti-abortion because of the fact that more black children are aborted than white children, and it IS a fact that some black leaders have come out against abortion for this very reason i.e.; that is the white man's scheme to kill the black race.

This is a redefinition of reality that has become a paradigm of the left; an untruth, a fantasy that replaces conventional reasoning for the terminally ignorant (no think aka think speak) as in another paradigm that has been thoroughly exploited by the media of late; that while it is certainly wrong to commit murder it is more than murder to kill a black person if the perpetrator is white under any circumstances while it is OK to kill white people especially if the perpetrator is Black, under any circumstances.

If you think about it, you might realize that any situation that just doesn't make sense these days is probably a leftist paradigm.

As far as what impact this has on the right and politics... I can understand the concern. It is apparently working else this thread would never have seen the light of day.
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Last edited by Mac-Tan; 04-14-2012 at 01:14 AM.
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Old 04-14-2012, 02:46 AM   #65
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He expanded government.
And Mac is right. There are a bunch of crazy liberal religious assholes that want to impose their beliefs on everyone. Like how democrat liberals voted to ban gay marriage here in California.


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Ronald Reagan.
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Old 04-14-2012, 03:35 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by treefish View Post
How's that trying to impose belief?

All legislation contains one form of morality or another -- and it would be absurd to say that a Christian should not take a position which is consistent with his beliefs. The alternative is what - to ask them to take a legislative position which is contrary to his belief? It makes no more sense to ask a Christian to avoid policy decisions consistent with his beliefs than it would to ask an atheist to do so.

For the most part, conservative Christians who are in office, or seeking office, are seeking two things - legislation which is consistent with their beliefs as to how society is best to be governed, and limited government. On the flip side, most non-religious liberals are seeking two things - legislation which is consistent with their beliefs as to how society is best to be governed, and extensive government regulations.

In a democracy we all vote our consciences, and seek to elect those who hold opinions consistent withi out belief structure. Government is therefore by majority mores, within the confines of the constitution. If a religious conservative majority were to get elected, and to pass legislation which "forced belief" (e.g. You all must worship God on Sunday) I would full well expect it to be struck down as unconstitutional.

By the way, none of the examples you cited have anything to do with imposing ones faith on another.
Which enforces my earlier point about states. Both liberals and conservatives will attempt to use the Federal government to impose their personal values, ideas and principles on the ENTIRE country, a country which does not ever entirely consent to that. Indirect government to that capacity is not only undesirable, it is ILLEGAL under the constitution.

The constitution outlines explicitly what the Federal government can do, everything else is the authority of the states. If the constitution does not explicitly tell the Federal government that it can do something, then it can't do it.

Marriage is not mentioned in the constitution, so it goes to the states. Drug enforcement? Same thing. How about Health Care? Yep. 98% of what the Federal government does is ILLEGAL.

This is my point. At the state level you and all of your kin can engage in Democracy. You can either vote on your own laws, or at the very least you have the ability to recall state legislatures and executives. You have far more control over the laws that govern you; laws are not imposed on you by a detached plutocracy a thousand miles away and you can not impose your laws on others whom have not had a say.

You throw in the idea of state courts which make sure no state laws are passed which are unconstitutional, and Federalism which allows for the Federal government to negotiate and regulate commerce between the state (not under the expansive and illegal application of the interstate commerce clause we have today), and you have a much more perfect system than we are employing.

And this more perfect system is already right there in the constitution, we just need to follow it.

Last edited by MrsShrodingersBox; 04-14-2012 at 03:37 AM.
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Old 04-14-2012, 03:46 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by treefish View Post
Ronald Reagan.
Do you really believe this? Reagan increased the size of the government by more than 10% and drastically increased the deficit, after vowing to cut it.

He also increased government jobs under a philosophy similar to your buddy Obama; expand the Federal workforce and put more people to work in a sluggish economy.

Fiscal conservative he was not.
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Old 04-14-2012, 07:49 AM   #68
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You think it's fair to take money from me and give it to people who don't work?
If liberals had their way taxes would be higher to pay for all the entitlement programs. And yes, defense spending should take a cut too.
No, I don't think that.

BUT I also think many of these neocons need to put their money where their mouth is, and until they do, I find it hard to take their complaints seriously.

They complain about raised taxes, but newsflash - taxes are raised on the top 1%, first. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and assume most liveleakers don't fall into that category. in fact, i'm gonna go even further and say most fall in the bottom 50%, whose tax rates actually get reduced year by year, from what I've seen on the year by year tax statistics.

Yet they also complain about tax being raised on the rich, and how unfair it is, yet they clearly can't hold their own even with the limited tax they are made to pay..

I could go on forever but I'm too tired and drunk at the moment.

But bottom line, I want them to put their money where their mouth is.
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Old 04-14-2012, 11:56 AM   #69
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/\ /\

Neo-lib.

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Originally Posted by slacker- View Post

But bottom line, I want them to put their money where their mouth is.
The rich already pay way more in taxes than anyone else and "conservatives" give way more in charity than liberals or Democrats.
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Old 04-14-2012, 02:01 PM   #70
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Does that include donations to churches? If so, lol.

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/\ /\

Neo-lib.



The rich already pay way more in taxes than anyone else and "conservatives" give way more in charity than liberals or Democrats.
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