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Old 02-01-2012, 02:33 PM   #21
theblue8
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Get rid of money all together. End of problem.
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Old 02-01-2012, 02:37 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by theblue8 View Post
Get rid of money all together. End of problem.
Good Idea and I like it.
Problem with that is you would have carry a tally stick everywhere you went.
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Old 02-01-2012, 02:37 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by dad61 View Post
I've seen them, they're not completely correct, they have some good points, but.....
but?
I'm not saying the video is full of infinite wisdom, rather that it presents the unsustainable madness this world has been functioning in for a much too long time now.

Which part do you find "not completely correct"?
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Old 02-01-2012, 02:42 PM   #24
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Have seen the money lenders videos vOgl?
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Old 02-01-2012, 02:46 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by theblue8 View Post
Get rid of money all together. End of problem.
that is one of the ideas presented in the video, a fundamental change in society away from the monetary system (venus project)
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Old 02-01-2012, 02:47 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by vOgl View Post
but?
I'm not saying the video is full of infinite wisdom, rather that it presents the unsustainable madness this world has been functioning in for a much too long time now.

Which part do you find "not completely correct"?
Listen, we're really not on different pages here, I just disagree with your assessment that capitalism is to blame, mostly because it's not, it's much deeper than that. Free market capitalism is the very best economic form there is, the problem is that it's been hijacked by corruption. I totally agree with you about consumerism and that we are hypnotized to be "good little consumers", people are cattle to them. I say it all the time in here, quit watching the fucking boobtube and wake the fuck up people.

Here's a doc for you, I even took the time to translate the non English parts for people, this is the corrupt part of "consumerism" and is a big part of what is wrong, it's a 3 legged stool, which is why it's on the verge of collapsing, it really has nothing to do with capitalism, per se.

This is like one leg of the stool, the stool is called the infinite growth paradigm, which is nothing more than a pyramid scheme.



EDIT: And although I like the fundamental ideas of the venus project and agree with it in that sense, I read Daniel Quinn too, it's really all a pipe dream and could only be brought about by a total collapse of everything we know, an apocalyptic type catastrophe.....out of the ashes............

Last edited by dad61; 02-01-2012 at 02:53 PM.
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Old 02-01-2012, 02:47 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinbuk3 View Post
Have seen the money lenders videos vOgl?
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Old 02-01-2012, 03:32 PM   #28
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Money is a tool, nothing more, nothing less. It is an accepted medium of valuing ones time/labor compared to things you might like to acquire. It also serves as a means of rationing scarce resources and directing market activity. Simply put, if there is less of an item and/or demand rises, prices rise. This would encourage more production of said items and price will fall. Likewise if no one wants and item, it will stop being produced.

So what's the solution? Let government dictate incomes and prices? That worked out so well for the Soviet Union didn't it? I suppose it would if you consider a glut of shoes but a dearth of food and vice versa to be good. Well, not so much gluts of food, that rarely ever happened. It was more common for vast amounts of food to rot in storage because government price setters made such a mess of things.

I suppose we could go back to barter until people realized how unworkable that is. That's why money and capital came to be in the first place.

If you don't want to use money, fine. Find some rich guy who'll let you live in a shack on the grounds and feed you three times per day and some clothes now and then in exchange for tending the lawn and other odd jobs. Maybe a neighborhood would pool its resources and do the same, but then that's actually capitalism so that wouldn't work.
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Old 02-01-2012, 03:39 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dad61 View Post
Listen, we're really not on different pages here, I just disagree with your assessment that capitalism is to blame, mostly because it's not, it's much deeper than that. Free market capitalism is the very best economic form there is, the problem is that it's been hijacked by corruption. I totally agree with you about consumerism and that we are hypnotized to be "good little consumers", people are cattle to them. I say it all the time in here, quit watching the fucking boobtube and wake the fuck up people.

Here's a doc for you, I even took the time to translate the non English parts for people, this is the corrupt part of "consumerism" and is a big part of what is wrong, it's a 3 legged stool, which is why it's on the verge of collapsing, it really has nothing to do with capitalism, per se.

This is like one leg of the stool, the stool is called the infinite growth paradigm, which is nothing more than a pyramid scheme.



EDIT: And although I like the fundamental ideas of the venus project and agree with it in that sense, I read Daniel Quinn too, it's really all a pipe dream and could only be brought about by a total collapse of everything we know, an apocalyptic type catastrophe.....out of the ashes............
I cant really watch the vid you provided, cause i'm sitting behing a slow ass line atm, i just got as far as the printer story.
I suppose the documentary goes in the direction of predetermined breaking points etc.?

If so, that is actually a good example for the reason why capitalism can never coexist with sustainability.
The best example for that is the light bulb.
For about a century it would have been possible to manufacture light bulbs that can outlive you.
What happened instead?
A light bulb MUST break after approximately 1000 hours, guideline of the (still existing) light bulb cartel.
If a company produced a better product it was fined by the cartell.
THAT is capitalism.
You'll find this strategy in almost every modern production, cars, clothes, any electronic device like e.g. printers, EVERYTHING.
Why is that?
Simple, every company wants to maximize its profit.
If Siemens/Osram would have built light bulbs that lived for 100.000 hours (which is easily possible for a fair price), they would have sold a couple to each household and then what?

What is corruption?
It is pretty much defined by saying people willing to do anything for monetary gain.
What is capitalism?
A system that puts profit over everything else, especially over the well-being of people.
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Old 02-01-2012, 03:47 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thane36425c View Post
Money is a tool, nothing more, nothing less. It is an accepted medium of valuing ones time/labor compared to things you might like to acquire. It also serves as a means of rationing scarce resources and directing market activity. Simply put, if there is less of an item and/or demand rises, prices rise. This would encourage more production of said items and price will fall. Likewise if no one wants and item, it will stop being produced.

So what's the solution? Let government dictate incomes and prices? That worked out so well for the Soviet Union didn't it? I suppose it would if you consider a glut of shoes but a dearth of food and vice versa to be good. Well, not so much gluts of food, that rarely ever happened. It was more common for vast amounts of food to rot in storage because government price setters made such a mess of things.

I suppose we could go back to barter until people realized how unworkable that is. That's why money and capital came to be in the first place.

If you don't want to use money, fine. Find some rich guy who'll let you live in a shack on the grounds and feed you three times per day and some clothes now and then in exchange for tending the lawn and other odd jobs. Maybe a neighborhood would pool its resources and do the same, but then that's actually capitalism so that wouldn't work.
Your idea of money is so far outdated, its mind boggling.
You might want to watch the first video to get a little idea of what money is about.
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