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Old 01-16-2018, 03:21 PM   #1
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Default Brexit is a collective English mental breakdown

In the White Paper of February 2nd, 2017, introducing the procedures for leaving the European Union, the UK government made an astonishingly frank admission: “Whilst Parliament has remained sovereign throughout our membership of the EU, it has not always felt like that.” In other words, the Leave campaigners’ principal claim, that it was necessary to “take back control” of UK laws, was false, since control had never been lost; and the campaign was based, not on fact, but on what it “felt like” – on illusion, therefore, and emotion.

Why did it ‘feel like that’? Where did the illusions of Leave voters come from? The question Brexit really raises is one not of economics or politics, but of national psychology. And it is not ‘British’ psychology that is at issue, but English. Scotland voted 62 per cent in support of Remain as did 56 per cent of Northern Ireland (and in the Republic support for European Union membership is currently estimated at more than 80 per cent).

The Leave campaign presented the EU as a lethal threat to national identity, indeed as the stranger and enemy that had already stolen it: give us back our country, they said. And to vote against the EU was to vote to recover what we had lost. The voting pattern, however, revealed that appeal to emotion, and that vision of the EU, worked only in England, and that Europhobia was the outcome of a specifically English crisis of identity.

England sank its identity in the unions with Scotland, in 1707, and with Ireland, in 1800, which gave rise respectively to Britain and to the United Kingdom.

Imperially self-sufficient
From then on the English had no need of a separate identity, for as metropolitans – of Britain, of the United Kingdom and eventually of the British empire – they dealt with no one on equal terms. They were masters of the seas, they could travel around the world without setting foot outside imperial territory, and economically the empire was, potentially at least, self-sufficient.

The dismantling by the United States of the British empire, after its finest hour in 1940, was a traumatic blow to the psyche of two English generations, from which they have never recovered, largely because they have never recognised it.

Any recovery from this collective mental breakdown will involve treating it in the light of its deep historical causes
The end of empire meant the end of the English pretension to have and need no national identity of their own. Once they admitted their empire was no more, the English would have to become just another nation like everybody else, with a specific, limited identity, a specific history, neither specially honourable nor specially dishonourable, with limited weight, limited resources, and limited importance in the world, and on the Atlantic archipelago.

That is the terrifying truth that membership of the EU presents to the English and from which for centuries the empire insulated them: that they have to live in the world on an equal footing with other people.

In Ireland, the EU, the essential framework for the Belfast Friday agreement of 1998, appears as the guardian of nationhood, the guarantor of the peaceful coexistence of the island’s two factions: when, at the end of your lane, you cross from the Republic into Tyrone, Fermanagh, or Armagh, it is the EU, not London, that tells you you are still in Ireland.

Similarly, in Scotland, to vote for the EU was to vote for the distinctness of Scotland as a legitimate fellow occupant of the island of Great Britain and for its equality with England as a fellow member, alongside Germany and Malta, France and Cyprus, of a larger union than that centred on London.

Only the English could not see the EU in these terms: as the protector of the identity of relatively small nations in a world of conflicting giants. Because only the English could not see themselves as a nation at all.

Haunted
For the English the United Kingdom occupies the psychic space once filled by the empire. Haunted by their unassimilated imperial past, the English continue refusing to think of themselves as a nation in the same sense as Scotland or Ireland and maintain a constitution for their United Kingdom which denies the obvious. Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland all have their variously titled national assemblies, but England has none – not out of modesty, but in order to claim for itself the exceptional position of anonymous master of its now diminutive empire.

The EU challenged England not to give up a national identity, but to acquire one – to give up the illusions embodied in a United Kingdom that never was a nation, but was always a device to conceal England’s colonial relation to the other nations inhabiting Great Britain and Ireland. Instead the EU offered England the opportunity for equal partnership in a common endeavour, which is nowadays all that nationhood can mean.

On June 23rd, 2016, the English rejected that offer and opted to continue living the fiction of splendid isolation that sustained the UK and the British empire before it, and to continue denying the Scots and the Irish a will of their own. Any recovery from this collective mental breakdown will involve treating it in the light of its deep historical causes. Not until there is a separate English parliament, giving England at last the distinctive political identity it has shunned for 300 years, will the delusions that led the country to Brexit finally be dissipated by contact with reality. Perhaps then, with their psychosis healed, the English will apply to rejoin the EU.

Nicholas Boyle is Emeritus Schröder Professor of German at the University of Cambridge

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/b...down-1.3356258
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Old 01-16-2018, 04:06 PM   #2
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Fuck all the haters, especially the haters. Especially the haters who voted remain.

Populations.
England; 66million.
Scotland; 5.4million
Wales; 3million
NI; 1.8million

None of the provinces would last more than days in a civil war. I do wonder if this is enough to turn brother against brother, ive seen families torn up over the brexit issue, so who knows.
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Old 01-16-2018, 07:38 PM   #3
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Drivel.
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Old 01-17-2018, 09:33 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snipershot View Post
Fuck all the haters, especially the haters. Especially the haters who voted remain.

Populations.
England; 66million.
Scotland; 5.4million
Wales; 3million
NI; 1.8million

None of the provinces would last more than days in a civil war. I do wonder if this is enough to turn brother against brother, ive seen families torn up over the brexit issue, so who knows.
In a single sentence you've just subconciously proven the entire point of the article and don't even realise it.

Quote:
province
noun
1.
a principal administrative division of a country or empire.

2.the whole of a country outside the capital, especially when regarded as lacking in sophistication or culture.
Quote:
civil war
noun
a war between citizens of the same country.
Britain is NOT a country. It is a false undemocratic state that was forced upon the peoples of other independent countries either through invasion(Ireland/Wales) or corruption(Scotland, following several centuries of aggression). Unless, of course, you are referring to a civil war within the provinces of England itself. But then, why mention the populations of the 3 other countries?

As I said, you have just proven the entire point of the article........
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Old 01-17-2018, 10:07 AM   #5
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And this anonymous empire is shown to be starkly clear by last nights naked power grab by English MPs from the Scottish government.....taking back control indeed;

Quote:
1. Agricultural Support

2. Agriculture - Fertiliser Regulations

3. Agriculture - GMO Marketing & Cultivation

4. Agriculture - Organic Farming

5. Agriculture - Zootech

6. Animal Health and Traceability

7. Animal Welfare

8. Aviation Noise Management at Airports

9. Blood Safety and Quality

10.Carbon Capture & Storage

11.Chemicals regulation (including pesticides)

12.Civil judicial co-operation - jurisdiction and recognition & enforcement of judgments in civil & commercial matters (including B1 rules and related EU conventions)

13.Civil judicial co-operation - jurisdiction and recognition & enforcement of judgments instruments in family law (including BIIa, Maintenance and civil protection orders)

14.Civil judicial cooperation on service of documents and taking of evidence

15.Criminal offences minimum standards measures - Combating Child Sexual Exploitation Directive

16.Control of major accident hazards

17.Cross border mediation

18.Data sharing - (EU fingerprint database (EuroDac)

19.Data sharing - European Criminal Records Information System (ECRIS)

20.Data sharing - False and Authentic Documents Online (FADO)

21.Data sharing - passenger name records

22.Data sharing - Prüm framework

23.Data sharing - Schengen Information System (SIS II) 24.Efficiency in energy use 25.Elements of Reciprocal Healthcare

26.Elements of the Network and Information Security (NIS) Directive

27.Elements of Tobacco Regulation

28.Energy Performance of Buildings Directive

29.Environmental Impact Assessment (EIA) Directive

30.Environmental law concerning energy planning consents

31.Environmental law concerning offshore oil & gas installations within territorial waters 32.Environmental quality - Air Quality

33.Environmental quality - Chemicals

34.Environmental quality - Flood Risk Management

35.Environmental quality - International timber trade (EUTR and FLEGT)

36.Environmental quality - Marine environment

37.Environmental quality - Natural Environment and Biodiversity

38.Environmental quality - Ozone depleting substances and F-gases

39.Environmental quality - Pesticides

40.Environmental quality - Spatial Data Infrastructure Standards

41.Environmental quality - Waste Packaging & Product Regulations

42.Environmental quality - Waste Producer Responsibility Regulations

43.Environmental quality - Water Quality

44.Environmental quality - Water Resources

45.Environmental quality - Biodiversity - access and benefit sharing of genetic resources

46.Equal Treatment Legislation

47.EU agencies - EU-LISA

48.EU agencies - Eurojust

49.EU agencies - Europol

50.EU Social Security Coordination

51.Fisheries Management & Support

52.Food and Feed Law

53.Food Compositional Standards

54.Food Geographical Indications (Protected Food Names)

55.Food Labelling

56.Forestry (domestic)

57.Free movement of healthcare (the right for EEA citizens to have their elective

procedure in another member state)

58.Genetically modified micro-organisms contained use

59.Good laboratory practice

60.Harbours

61.Hazardous Substances Planning

62.Heat metering and billing information

63.High Efficiency Cogeneration

64.Implementation of EU Emissions Trading System

65.Ionising radiation

66.Land use

67.Late payment (commercial transactions)

68.Legal aid in cross-border cases

69.Migrant Access to benefits

70.Minimum standards -housing & care: regulation of the use of animals

71.Minimum standards legislation - child sexual exploitation

72.Minimum standards legislation - cybercrime

73.Minimum standards legislation - football disorder

74.Minimum standards legislation - human trafficking

75.Mutual recognition of professional qualifications

76.Mutual recognition of criminal court judgements measures & cross border cooperation - European Protection Order, Prisoner Transfer Framework Directive, European Supervision Directive, Compensation to Crime Victims Directive

77.Nutrition health claims, composition and labelling

78.Onshore hydrocarbons licensing

79.Organs

80.Plant Health, Seeds and Propagating Material

81.Practical cooperation in law enforcement - Asset Recovery Offices

82.Practical cooperation in law enforcement - European Investigation Order

83.Practical cooperation in law enforcement - Joint Action on Organised Crime

84.Practical cooperation in law enforcement - Joint investigation teams

85.Practical cooperation in law enforcement - mutual legal assistance

86.Practical cooperation in law enforcement - mutual recognition of asset freezing orders

87.Practical cooperation in law enforcement - mutual recognition of confiscation orders

88.Practical cooperation in law enforcement - Schengen Article 40

89.Practical cooperation in law enforcement - Swedish initiative

90.Practical cooperation in law enforcement - European judicial network

91.Practical cooperation in law enforcement - implementation of European Arrest Warrant

92.Procedural rights (criminal cases) - minimum standards measures

93.Provision of legal services

94.Provision in the 1995 Data Protection Directive (soon to be replaced by the General Data Protection Regulation) that allows for more than one supervisory authority in

each member state

95.Public sector procurement

96.Public health (serious cross-border threats to health)

97.Radioactive Source Notifications – Trans-frontier shipments

98.Radioactive waste treatment and disposal

99.Rail franchising rules

100.Rail markets and operator licensing

101.Recognition of insolvency proceedings in EU Member States

102.Renewable Energy Directive

103.Rules on applicable law in civil & commercial cross border claims

104.Sentencing - taking convictions into account

105.State Aid

106.Statistics

107.Strategic Environmental Assessment (SEA) Directive

108.Tissues and cells

109.Uniform fast-track procedures for certain civil and commercial claims (uncontested debts, small claims)

110.Victims rights measures (criminal cases)

111.Voting rights and candidacy rules for EU citizens in local government elections
Of course, as England decided to take back control from an undemocratic superstate this bill still has to pass through the entirely democratic House of Lords. I don't seem to remember voting in 800+ English Lords'n'Ladies to decide my country's laws for it, must've been ill that day!
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Old 01-17-2018, 11:46 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peekay View Post
Britain is NOT a country
You must stink of urine from pissing into the wind.

Nations only become nations from the willing participation of its peoples.
Civil war is a breakdown of that participation.
No, britain is not a 'country', but then here i feel youre just stating the obvious.

When scotland voted on independence i wasnt waiting in the wings to cry and bitch if it happened. I gave my opinion prior and that was it. I totally understand 'nationalism', and as such i will respect a peoples right to do what they will. I understand the hate for westmonster and the privately educated landed fucks that run that moral cesspit, without a single real fuck given for tenant plebs.

Nothing i wrote confirmed anything, the article was just a mewling excercise from one perspective. It taught me nothing, except the extremes people go to push an agenda.

Who is that article written for by the way?
All i am saying is, make sure you have the right targets in the crosshair, that wouldnt be the union that we as people have celebrated for (the most part) nearly 400 years.
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Old 01-17-2018, 12:53 PM   #7
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Half the trouble we as a nation are now in is from Scottish politicians, Gordon Brown etc fucked this island over..Now more Scots politicians want to do the same..and blame England for all their troubles..fuck that..Scots MPs have only recently been stopped from voting on English matters..English Mps never got to vote on Scots matters..how many Lords are Scots?..shitloads..putting the blame for shit on England..the old story from the totally innocent, hard done by Irish and Scots..fuck that..
Such a tiny population in Scotland..what jobs would you have?..if you hadnt joined the union?..you would have been conquered and occupied..your countrymen invaded/raided and helped our enemies for centuries..you have had a higher standard of living since the union..your scientists/engineers/inventors wouldnt have been without union..grow some bollocks Scotland..stop whining and take some blame for anything wrong with your country..ffs.
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Old 01-17-2018, 01:20 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bran View Post
Half the trouble we as a nation are now in is from Scottish politicians, Gordon Brown etc fucked this island over..Now more Scots politicians want to do the same..and blame England for all their troubles..fuck that..Scots MPs have only recently been stopped from voting on English matters..English Mps never got to vote on Scots matters..how many Lords are Scots?..shitloads..putting the blame for shit on England..the old story from the totally innocent, hard done by Irish and Scots..fuck that..
Such a tiny population in Scotland..what jobs would you have?..if you hadnt joined the union?..you would have been conquered and occupied..your countrymen invaded/raided and helped our enemies for centuries..you have had a higher standard of living since the union..your scientists/engineers/inventors wouldnt have been without union..grow some bollocks Scotland..stop whining and take some blame for anything wrong with your country..ffs.
100% agreement. My family tree is littered with gaelic blood. These 'scots' must think they are pureblood or something...
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Old 01-17-2018, 05:45 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snipershot View Post
100% agreement. My family tree is littered with gaelic blood. These 'scots' must think they are pureblood or something...
Ireland has more pureblood..but is still a mix..Scotland is much more mixed..Irish/Scot/English/Norse/original gaels..though not many.

Scots heroes before union..William wallace..known to have raided Scots villages alongside English deserters..wasnt in charge during the famous battle, just happened to be the highest ranking survivor..lots were not happy he was made up after..Rob Roy..cattle thief and raider..Bonny Prince Charlie..French cunt who only went to Scotland with Frog aid..raided some towns which were unprotected..then when an English army came?..Ran back to France..
Scots heroes after union?..Not enough space to put them down here..
I love Scotland..i just think its a shame some think along the lines of a grieved people still.
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Old 01-19-2018, 04:19 AM   #10
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Interesting take on the english mind set, and probably a valid one. Yet for all that the OP article does state denigrating english domination of the UK, it offers no argument as to why agreeing to domination by bureaucrats in Brussels is necessarily any better. Professor Boyle simply assumes that it is better, as all Collectivist Progressives tend to assume that a collective arrangement is better than an independent arrangement. He writes, "Instead the EU offered England the opportunity for equal partnership in a common endeavour, which is nowadays all that nationhood can mean". 'Equal partnership in common endeavor' is the classic communist ideal, and Professor Boyle simply declares that this is 'all that nationhood can mean...' without offering a shred of supporting argument for his claim. Nationhood means so many different things to different people Professor Boyle, and one of those things is sovereignty. Slyly playing the ends against the middle, Boyle uses the justified grievances of Wales, Northern Ireland, and Scotland against England's domination as a trap to justify ensnaring all of them in a new Brussels dominated scheme. It's clever, but it's the same ol' "take your place in the equality line and submit to the Central Committee's Plan*...".

*which includes unrestricted immigration designed to further destroy national and cultural identity, taxation without authentic representation, and a 'one size fits all' approach to regional issues
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