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Old 07-14-2017, 04:58 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by slacker- View Post
no he specifically said Mexico's either going to pay or he's gonna start a trade war w/them or he's gonna tax 20% on imports from Mexico...he specifically said he's a master negotiator and that mexico is "absolutely" going to pay. this is just one of many clips he's said that BUT:

https://youtu.be/GasRDffe1Xg?t=23m48s

people took it literally bc he made it clear he meant it, literally.
if you re read my comment I specifically said through trade/import ,export tariff .(as well as through immigration control)

I remember that he did make it sound like mexico quite literally would pay for it "out of pocket" though , but anybody who believed that, himself included would just be kidding themselves .

I don't even know how you begin to force another country to finance something of that magnitude directly , outside of war reparations or something imposed by the international community.
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Old 07-14-2017, 05:00 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by slacker- View Post
no he specifically said Mexico's either going to pay or he's gonna start a trade war w/them or he's gonna tax 20% on imports from Mexico...he specifically said he's a master negotiator and that mexico is "absolutely" going to pay. this is just one of many clips he's said that BUT:

https://youtu.be/GasRDffe1Xg?t=23m48s

people took it literally bc he made it clear he meant it, literally.
Look, I don't know about most people who voted for Trump, but I really don't give a shit who pays for it. The fact that he said he wanted to build a wall was enough for me. The added tag line "...and we're gonna make Mexico pay for it" was good for a laugh, made for great headlines, but not what attracted me to the wall idea, nor most others, I'm sure. It's not like "Oh, Mexico isn't paying for it? Then we don't want a wall"...that makes no sense whatsoever.

The money allocated for the wall is miniscule compared to so many other things in the budget. I never expected Mexico to come up with the money first or we can't build the wall. The idea was build it, and when Trump said we'll get Mexico to pay for it, that was just icing on the cake, a slap in Mexico's face, that's all. The idea of Mexico paying for the wall is not the attraction to the wall here.

And don't be surprised if we do build the wall and Trump, via trade war, taxing imports etc actually gets Mexico to at least pitch in.

So then what? All people can say is "The wall he built, he said Mexico was going to pay for it but we are paying for it." Oh boo-hoo, I guarantee you 95% of Trump supporters don't give a shit WHO pays for the wall, making Mexico pay for it is just fun icing on the cake and a slap in the face to Mexico.

So holler all you want about "He said Mexico was going to pay for it", and mark my words, if it gets built, he'll find a way to make Mexico pay, if not for the whole thing, for some of it, and that's just fine with me and probably most other Trump supporters in favor of the wall.

Even if Mexico never forks over a dime and the wall gets built, it is a win.
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Old 07-14-2017, 06:18 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Bashman View Post
Look, I don't know about most people who voted for Trump, but I really don't give a shit who pays for it. The fact that he said he wanted to build a wall was enough for me. The added tag line "...and we're gonna make Mexico pay for it" was good for a laugh, made for great headlines, but not what attracted me to the wall idea, nor most others, I'm sure. It's not like "Oh, Mexico isn't paying for it? Then we don't want a wall"...that makes no sense whatsoever.

The money allocated for the wall is miniscule compared to so many other things in the budget. I never expected Mexico to come up with the money first or we can't build the wall. The idea was build it, and when Trump said we'll get Mexico to pay for it, that was just icing on the cake, a slap in Mexico's face, that's all. The idea of Mexico paying for the wall is not the attraction to the wall here.

And don't be surprised if we do build the wall and Trump, via trade war, taxing imports etc actually gets Mexico to at least pitch in.

So then what? All people can say is "The wall he built, he said Mexico was going to pay for it but we are paying for it." Oh boo-hoo, I guarantee you 95% of Trump supporters don't give a shit WHO pays for the wall, making Mexico pay for it is just fun icing on the cake and a slap in the face to Mexico.

So holler all you want about "He said Mexico was going to pay for it", and mark my words, if it gets built, he'll find a way to make Mexico pay, if not for the whole thing, for some of it, and that's just fine with me and probably most other Trump supporters in favor of the wall.

Even if Mexico never forks over a dime and the wall gets built, it is a win.
Its all the left has now that its been funded... they need a negative to hype on.

I also focused on the promise of building of the wall ,not the hyperbole - hell just start enforcing the current laws, that would be an improvement.

Its really sad that as a nation we were able to mass produce a war machine to defeat the Axis Power in 4 years, but now we balk at the thought of building a fucking wall. Our ancestors are rolling in their graves.
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Old 07-14-2017, 06:57 PM   #14
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Its all the left has now that its been funded... they need a negative to hype on.

I also focused on the promise of building of the wall ,not the hyperbole - hell just start enforcing the current laws, that would be an improvement.

Its really sad that as a nation we were able to mass produce a war machine to defeat the Axis Power in 4 years, but now we balk at the thought of building a fucking wall. Our ancestors are rolling in their graves.
Yep. And that has been happening. I have heard that coyotes in Mexico and Central America have seen their business drop dramatically since Trump let ICE go ahead and start enforcing the laws that are already on the books that were not previously being enforced.

Hell, right now...Trump is the wall. Illegal immigration is way down, ICE is deporting busloads of illegal felons and criminals who are here, and this is having a dramatic effect on the desire of foreigners to enter this country illegally.

You come to my country illegally to get out of your shithole country, then you commit crimes? Fuck you, you're gone.

Just enforcing the laws is actually saving lives also, not just from felonies committed by illegals here in the US, but also in that the number of people who die or become victims of rape or other violent crimes as they make illegal passage via the Coyotes, or however, to the United States is down because the actual number of people trying to get in illegally is way down.

Just the fear of Trump and his wall has erected a wall in and of itself.
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Old 07-14-2017, 07:08 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by DontTreadOnMe2 View Post
Its all the left has now that its been funded... they need a negative to hype on.

I also focused on the promise of building of the wall ,not the hyperbole - hell just start enforcing the current laws, that would be an improvement.

Its really sad that as a nation we were able to mass produce a war machine to defeat the Axis Power in 4 years, but now we balk at the thought of building a fucking wall. Our ancestors are rolling in their graves.
yup, the mass migrations back then were something to behold, builders, carpenters et'al knocking up army bases, sleeping in their cars just to get shit done till enough spare time to knock up a shack, DC building extra war offices, ship yards knocking out liberty ships out at what was it one a day, ordnance factories springing up here and there, think there was a huge cordite (?) manufactory up in Oregon, furnaces ran hot, the mines ran deep.
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Old 07-14-2017, 07:08 PM   #16
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The very first day Donald Trump said Mexico would pay for the wall, I didn't believe it. I assumed all along that there would not be an outright payment from Mexico to build the wall. When I read the details that were written down, I realized Trump did not mean directly but rather through other financial means.

Two points on that:
1) Trump wasn't lying by modern political standards. Every Senator, almost every congressman and definitely every President and every presidential candidate has boasted about things that "pay for themselves" or about how this or that is going to paid for or covered. Look how many times Obama said Obamacare would pay for itself and premiums would go down. Was he lying? We know Jonathan Gruber was lying when he said it and he's the hack politico who had the job of selling Obamacare to the American people. Now, if he said he knew it was a lie and everyone behind Obamacare knew it was a lie, then I think it's pretty obvious that Obamacare was sold on a lie that it would "pay for itself" and Premiums would go down. So I'm wondering who the idiot is who after years of listening to politicians, if not decades, is stupid enough to believe politicians when they talk about who is going to pay what and what programs are actually going to cost.

2) For those who think they have a point by saying over and over again that Trump voters were deceived by Trumps "We're going to build a wall and Mexico is going to pay for it", I just laugh at the hysteria. Even though I knew it wasn't going to be an outright payment and Trump's actual policy statement said it was going to be done by alternate financial methods, I was more bemused and entertained by the left's freak out about it. I thought it was absolutely highlarious when Vincente Fox was stupid enough to go on our national news programs and say "Mexico is not going to pay for the fucking wall". The fact that every lefty, in the tank for HER show replayed it, as if Vincente Fox is anything but a total fuck up of a Mexican country and Mexico isn't a fucked up country itself. As if the guy who presided over the rise of the Cartels and leeched off America for 30% of the Mexican GDP should be saying anything at all about our presidential races. I thought it was one of the most entertaining things in the world to watch that country of corruption, drugs and murder try to tell us anything and Democrats repeat it as if the point didn't have the exact opposite effect to any thinking American. I just Loved it, LOVED IT, when Trump retorted that the wall just got ten feet higher. It was about time a politician finally said some shit to Mexico about their shit. It was so far more American than Obama's ridiculous point about "they shouldn't have to learn English. Maybe we should learn Spanish". The shit stain of a President that can only speak American English said that. That stupid shit stain who doesn't know how to pronounce "corpseman" and talked about speaking "Austrian".

If you want to know why Trump won, it's because he said he was going to make Mexico pay for the wall and the wall just got ten feet higher.

Srsly, you want Trump supporters to turn on him because you think we didn't take him literally enough in his campaign promises? ROFLMAO!!!!

Show me the damn presidential candidate in the last fifty years, hell the last 100 years, who didn't say to the people how something was going to be paid for and didn't lie through his teeth?

At least Trump's "lie" rustled the jimmies of all the right people.
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Old 07-14-2017, 07:24 PM   #17
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Oh, this article's not bias at all! And just so we're clear, it's American tax dollars paying for it? Or did I read that wrong?
All news is biased, we can barely define the legitimacy of a story based on bias these days. From CNN, to Fox, to MSNBC to Breitbart. They're all biased.
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Old 07-14-2017, 07:33 PM   #18
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Trump's website with his campaign policy positions looks like it was taken down but OnceProud posted the page on the "The Donald Built a Juggernaut!" Thread.


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The three core principles of Donald J. Trump's immigration plan

When politicians talk about “immigration reform” they mean: amnesty, cheap labor and open borders. The Schumer-Rubio immigration bill was nothing more than a giveaway to the corporate patrons who run both parties.

Real immigration reform puts the needs of working people first – not wealthy globetrotting donors. We are the only country in the world whose immigration system puts the needs of other nations ahead of our own. That must change. Here are the three core principles of real immigration reform:

1. A nation without borders is not a nation. There must be a wall across the southern border.

2. A nation without laws is not a nation. Laws passed in accordance with our Constitutional system of government must be enforced.

3. A nation that does not serve its own citizens is not a nation. Any immigration plan must improve jobs, wages and security for all Americans.

Make Mexico Pay For The Wall

For many years, Mexico’s leaders have been taking advantage of the United States by using illegal immigration to export the crime and poverty in their own country (as well as in other Latin American countries). They have even published pamphlets on how to illegally immigrate to the United States. The costs for the United States have been extraordinary: U.S. taxpayers have been asked to pick up hundreds of billions in healthcare costs, housing costs, education costs, welfare costs, etc. Indeed, the annual cost of free tax credits alone paid to illegal immigrants quadrupled to $4.2 billion in 2011. The effects on jobseekers have also been disastrous, and black Americans have been particularly harmed.

The impact in terms of crime has been tragic. In recent weeks, the headlines have been covered with cases of criminals who crossed our border illegally only to go on to commit horrific crimes against Americans. Most recently, an illegal immigrant from Mexico, with a long arrest record, is charged with breaking into a 64 year-old women’s home, crushing her skull and eye sockets with a hammer, raping her, and murdering her. The Police Chief in Santa Maria says the “blood trail” leads straight to Washington.

In 2011, the Government Accountability Office found that there were a shocking 3 million arrests attached to the incarcerated alien population, including tens of thousands of violent beatings, rapes and murders.

Meanwhile, Mexico continues to make billions on not only our bad trade deals but also relies heavily on the billions of dollars in remittances sent from illegal immigrants in the United States back to Mexico ($22 billion in 2013 alone).

In short, the Mexican government has taken the United States to the cleaners. They are responsible for this problem, and they must help pay to clean it up.

The cost of building a permanent border wall pales mightily in comparison to what American taxpayers spend every single year on dealing with the fallout of illegal immigration on their communities, schools and unemployment offices.

Mexico must pay for the wall and, until they do, the United States will, among other things: impound all remittance payments derived from illegal wages; increase fees on all temporary visas issued to Mexican CEOs and diplomats (and if necessary cancel them); increase fees on all border crossing cards – of which we issue about 1 million to Mexican nationals each year (a major source of visa overstays); increase fees on all NAFTA worker visas from Mexico (another major source of overstays); and increase fees at ports of entry to the United States from Mexico [Tariffs and foreign aid cuts are also options]. We will not be taken advantage of anymore.

Defend The Laws And Constitution Of The United States

America will only be great as long as America remains a nation of laws that lives according to the Constitution. No one is above the law. The following steps will return to the American people the safety of their laws, which politicians have stolen from them:

Triple the number of ICE officers. As the President of the ICE Officers’ Council explained in Congressional testimony: “Only approximately 5,000 officers and agents within ICE perform the lion’s share of ICE’s immigration mission…Compare that to the Los Angeles Police Department at approximately 10,000 officers. Approximately 5,000 officers in ICE cover 50 states, Puerto Rico and Guam, and are attempting to enforce immigration law against 11 million illegal aliens already in the interior of the United States. Since 9-11, the U.S. Border Patrol has tripled in size, while ICE’s immigration enforcement arm, Enforcement and Removal Operations (ERO), has remained at relatively the same size.” This will be funded by accepting the recommendation of the Inspector General for Tax Administration and eliminating tax credit payments to illegal immigrants.

Nationwide e-verify. This simple measure will protect jobs for unemployed Americans.

Mandatory return of all criminal aliens. The Obama Administration has released 76,000 aliens from its custody with criminal convictions since 2013 alone. All criminal aliens must be returned to their home countries, a process which can be aided by canceling any visas to foreign countries which will not accept their own criminals, and making it a separate and additional crime to commit an offense while here illegally.

Detention—not catch-and-release. Illegal aliens apprehended crossing the border must be detained until they are sent home, no more catch-and-release.

Defund sanctuary cities. Cut-off federal grants to any city which refuses to cooperate with federal law enforcement.

Enhanced penalties for overstaying a visa. Millions of people come to the United States on temporary visas but refuse to leave, without consequence. This is a threat to national security. Individuals who refuse to leave at the time their visa expires should be subject to criminal penalties; this will also help give local jurisdictions the power to hold visa overstays until federal authorities arrive. Completion of a visa tracking system – required by law but blocked by lobbyists – will be necessary as well.

Cooperate with local gang task forces. ICE officers should accompany local police departments conducting raids of violent street gangs like MS-13 and the 18th street gang, which have terrorized the country. All illegal aliens in gangs should be apprehended and deported. Again, quoting Chris Crane: “ICE Officers and Agents are forced to apply the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) Directive, not to children in schools, but to adult inmates in jails. If an illegal-alien inmate simply claims eligibility, ICE is forced to release the alien back into the community. This includes serious criminals who have committed felonies, who have assaulted officers, and who prey on children…ICE officers should be required to place detainers on every illegal alien they encounter in jails and prisons, since these aliens not only violated immigration laws, but then went on to engage in activities that led to their arrest by police; ICE officers should be required to issue Notices to Appear to all illegal aliens with criminal convictions, DUI convictions, or a gang affiliation; ICE should be working with any state or local drug or gang task force that asks for such assistance.”

End birthright citizenship. This remains the biggest magnet for illegal immigration. By a 2:1 margin, voters say it’s the wrong policy, including Harry Reid who said “no sane country” would give automatic citizenship to the children of illegal immigrants.

Put American Workers First

Decades of disastrous trade deals and immigration policies have destroyed our middle class. Today, nearly 40% of black teenagers are unemployed. Nearly 30% of Hispanic teenagers are unemployed. For black Americans without high school diplomas, the bottom has fallen out: more than 70% were employed in 1960, compared to less than 40% in 2000. Across the economy, the percentage of adults in the labor force has collapsed to a level not experienced in generations. As CBS news wrote in a piece entitled “America’s incredible shrinking middle class”: “If the middle-class is the economic backbone of America, then the country is developing osteoporosis.”

The influx of foreign workers holds down salaries, keeps unemployment high, and makes it difficult for poor and working class Americans – including immigrants themselves and their children – to earn a middle class wage. Nearly half of all immigrants and their US-born children currently live in or near poverty, including more than 60 percent of Hispanic immigrants. Every year, we voluntarily admit another 2 million new immigrants, guest workers, refugees, and dependents, growing our existing all-time historic record population of 42 million immigrants. We need to control the admission of new low-earning workers in order to: help wages grow, get teenagers back to work, aid minorities’ rise into the middle class, help schools and communities falling behind, and to ensure our immigrant members of the national family become part of the American dream.

Additionally, we need to stop giving legal immigrant visas to people bent on causing us harm. From the 9/11 hijackers, to the Boston Bombers, and many others, our immigration system is being used to attack us. The President of the immigration caseworkers union declared in a statement on ISIS: “We've become the visa clearinghouse for the world.”

Here are some additional specific policy proposals for long-term reform:

Increase prevailing wage for H-1Bs. We graduate two times more Americans with STEM degrees each year than find STEM jobs, yet as much as two-thirds of entry-level hiring for IT jobs is accomplished through the H-1B program. More than half of H-1B visas are issued for the program's lowest allowable wage level, and more than eighty percent for its bottom two. Raising the prevailing wage paid to H-1Bs will force companies to give these coveted entry-level jobs to the existing domestic pool of unemployed native and immigrant workers in the U.S., instead of flying in cheaper workers from overseas. This will improve the number of black, Hispanic and female workers in Silicon Valley who have been passed over in favor of the H-1B program. Mark Zuckerberg’s personal Senator, Marco Rubio, has a bill to triple H-1Bs that would decimate women and minorities.

Requirement to hire American workers first. Too many visas, like the H-1B, have no such requirement. In the year 2015, with 92 million Americans outside the workforce and incomes collapsing, we need to companies to hire from the domestic pool of unemployed. Petitions for workers should be mailed to the unemployment office, not USCIS.

End welfare abuse. Applicants for entry to the United States should be required to certify that they can pay for their own housing, healthcare and other needs before coming to the U.S.

Jobs program for inner city youth. The J-1 visa jobs program for foreign youth will be terminated and replaced with a resume bank for inner city youth provided to all corporate subscribers to the J-1 visa program.

Refugee program for American children. Increase standards for the admission of refugees and asylum-seekers to crack down on abuses. Use the monies saved on expensive refugee programs to help place American children without parents in safer homes and communities, and to improve community safety in high crime neighborhoods in the United States.

Immigration moderation. Before any new green cards are issued to foreign workers abroad, there will be a pause where employers will have to hire from the domestic pool of unemployed immigrant and native workers. This will help reverse women's plummeting workplace participation rate, grow wages, and allow record immigration levels to subside to more moderate historical averages.
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positio...gration-reform
NOTICE THIS PART

Mexico must pay for the wall and, until they do, the United States will, among other things: impound all remittance payments derived from illegal wages; increase fees on all temporary visas issued to Mexican CEOs and diplomats (and if necessary cancel them); increase fees on all border crossing cards – of which we issue about 1 million to Mexican nationals each year (a major source of visa overstays); increase fees on all NAFTA worker visas from Mexico (another major source of overstays); and increase fees at ports of entry to the United States from Mexico [Tariffs and foreign aid cuts are also options]. We will not be taken advantage of anymore.
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Old 07-23-2017, 06:32 AM   #19
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I'd much rather fund the wall with my tax dollars than hand it over for illegal entitlements. In the long run, Mexico will pay for it in the form of reduced access to American taxpayer wealth. If you want to take trump's "Mexico will pay for it" literally, as if the federal government of Mexico would hand over the money to construct the Wall....then you're an idiot. Mexico will pay for the Wall in the reduced US currency sent home to Mexico by fewer illegal immigrants working in the US.
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Old 07-24-2017, 03:04 AM   #20
bed_wetting_liberal
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$1.6B a fully funded wall does not make. Trump himself said it'd be about $10B ("TRUMP: Oh Iím seeing numbers ó $24 billion, I think Iíll do it for $10 billion or less. "). Also, how long will it take, and how much more will it cost for the federal government to seize the private property along the border on which the fence will be built?

$100M to hire only 500 more border patrol agents? That's a huge scam! Doing the math, that's $200K per. Border patrol agents start at about $38K.

Sorry. Not buying it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bashman View Post
Mainstream Media didn't tell us this today, did it?

$1.6 billion for the wall, $100 million to hire 500 more Border Patrol agents, $131 million for new border technology, $106 million for aircraft and sensors and $109 million for 'non-intrusive inspection equipment...
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