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Old 05-05-2008, 02:32 AM   #21
gerryowen
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Originally Posted by USroguestate View Post
The sour grapes are with you mate..... the body bags coming home, the deformed bodies, the mentally scarred.... the reputation diminished by farmers with AK-47's..... the abject failure of the mission..... and yet you want 'the (imaginary) job done'... you clearly show your support for your troops by supporting their continual death
And you've been there? What would you do to solve the arab on arab violence? Leave them with more boodshed? Your "farmers" statement shows your ignorance. This is not a war to be fought in a conventional manner, and it's not fought wholesale. Try some insight into this without the melodrama, moojee.
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Old 05-05-2008, 03:24 AM   #22
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? Your country never showed much interest for Iraq before except profiting off the IranvIraq war.... the sanctions imposed on Iraq damaged the people not Saddam.... I thought the reason for going to Iraq was because Saddam posed an iminent threat to US security.... stop apologising Lopull.... People were not dying on the streets in thousands by the month.... there was not a massive internal war erupting.... there were not suicide bombers, car bombs, I.E.D's going off daily.... Stop trying to pretend that your country holds the high moral ground.... Saddam was a brutal dictator and yet he was one of your country's best friends in the ME.... you are getting desperate.
Still NOT apologising young man. Never have, never will and please stop characterizing me as an apologist. You'll "know it when you see it".

YOU never showed much interest in Iraq until it gave you a platform for your angry "anti-American rants. You're NOT angry about American actions ANYWHERE (even Afghanistan) except there...because it gives you political cover. HAT, Sir, is moral and ethical relativism, pure and simple.

The PEOPLE of Iraq were victims of Saddam before and after the sanctions. The difference being that it was the WILL of the world to impose sanctions...not just America...and ANY permanent member of the Security Council (many NOT close friends of America) could have vetoed those sanctions and did not. Those sanctions "imposed on Iraq damaged the people not Saddam" were designed to destabilize Saddam. He and his Ba'athists and thuggish military were far too interested in maintaining power than the welfare of their people. THAT is the fault of Saddam, not of America. America was NOT alone in sanctioning Iraq...a country that sought to invade and occupy nearly every one of it's neighbors during Saddam's reign.

I do not and did not approve of America's decision to invade Iraq. I DO and always will be unapologetic about the role of a "professional and unbiased" military in American policy (and ANY free country understands how important that is). America didn't profit off the Iran/Iraq more than any other industrialized nation in the World.

And BTW...your talk of "People were not dying on the streets in thousands by the month" is nothing but shrill desperate and empty hyperbolae. You Sir are factually correct when you state that "there was not a massive internal war erupting.... there were not suicide bombers, car bombs, I.E.D's going off daily". That being said, does NOT mean or should suggest that there was NOT terror in the streets of Iraq at the hands of Saddam. You are obviously too young to remember or appreciate the lives that the Slavs lived under the exact same conditions under Tito (the ruler not the EXCELLENT Vodka distilled in Austin, Texas)

On the face of it people would describe "Yugoslavia" as an idyllic place to live. On the face of it people would describe "the Soviet Union" as an idyllic place to live. On the face of it people would describe "East Germany" as an idyllic place to live. But the reality was far from that "truth". Life for the "regular" person was filled with dread, terror, fear and the sense that the "secret police" could take you away at any time...never to be seen again. And people DID die daily in Iraq. Just not so public...but died never the less. There was no "massive internal war erupting" because people were too busy just trying to stay alive and "below the radar" of the Ba'ath Party, Army and Saddams murdering thugs. Just like Tito and Stalin! If the people are SO afraid of their leader...they won't have time to settle the "old scores" of ethnic, nationalist and religious differences.

Saddam wasn't "one of your country's best friends". He WAS a NATURAL counter balance to Iran after the fall of the Shah. That was because of the hatred that Iraqis have for the Iranians. Arabs hate Persians and have been fighting them for 1000 years...that's why your silly boyish notion that al Sadr acting at the behest of the Iranians is in the best interest of Iraq. It IS in the best interest of IRAN and al Sadr but most certainly NOT those of Iraq and Iraqis!

Desperate I'm not. You, Sir, on the other hand continue to reduce the bloody history of Saddams regieme to one sentence missives that make him sound like a "school yard bully" and his people and country "pre" Gulf War I as happy and free. YOU have ZERO historical perspective on what is a straight forward objective assessment of Saddam's tyrannical and bloody decades of terror, murder and the rape of Iraq.
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Old 05-05-2008, 03:31 AM   #23
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Seems like Iraqi's are doing far worse since Saddam was deposed..... name something substantial that they have gained from US invasion and occupation.
Well before we came there and set up schools most teenage girls weren't allowed a education.Did you ever hear about operation Iraqi children or operation school? WE gave them 5 million school books also. You can criticize all you want, but I'm sure your intelligence when it comes to war strategy and rebuilding a nation isn't even close to that of those who are running this war.
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Old 05-05-2008, 10:11 AM   #24
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So what if America builds a nice embassy? It our money we can do that. As far as the Iraqi's go i guess you forget the BILLIONS we give them to rebuild their country. A smart man would be happy to take the money and build a strong nation from it. Misguided men don't care about the well being of Iraq and cause further conflict.
Rebuild what.... the shit your army destroyed and continues to destroy because jeez those damn Iraqi's just won't tow the line and accept US influence and domination.... American arrogance at its best. Imagine if the roles were reversed Iraq was occupying the US.... would you fight against the odds? Doubt it I bet most of you would just cop it.
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Old 05-05-2008, 10:14 AM   #25
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Well before we came there and set up schools most teenage girls weren't allowed a education.Did you ever hear about operation Iraqi children or operation school? WE gave them 5 million school books also. You can criticize all you want, but I'm sure your intelligence when it comes to war strategy and rebuilding a nation isn't even close to that of those who are running this war.
Once again.... mate - newsflash if for some cultural reason teenage girls were not allowed an education so be it.... it is none of your business.... stop trying to build nations in your image, because seriously yours is nothing to gloat about.
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Old 05-05-2008, 10:50 AM   #26
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USroguestate,

The USA has done a huge amount to rebuild Iraq as have the Iraqis themselves.

APOLOGIA DE AMERICA:

Unlike most superpowers throughout all of recorded history, the USA is unique.

1. The USA has expended a huge amount of capital resources rebuilding every single nation it has defeated. No other nation in history has done so to even remotely the same degree. All of the nations the USA have defeated in conflict have become reliable allies from the French Indian War to the present (ie UK, the confederacy, Western USA, Phillippines, Puerto Rico, Guam, USVI, Italy, Turkey, Germany, Japan, China and South Korea.) Those that were not defeated militarily have become mired in poverty and despotism (ie North Korea, Veitnam, Russia, Cuba and Lebanon).

2. The USA has always had the intent to support freedom, democracy and human rights in every single military conflict. The people of the USA always believe that we are fighting for the rights of those whom we oppose and has always made an effort to distinguish between the government and the people of an opposing nation. (Although this was not as clear concerning the Japanese during WWII.)

3. Since the early part of the 20th century, the USA has never attempted an imperiel grab for land or power from any nation we have ever been in military conflict with. On the contrary, the USA has invested resources to keep "victim' nations of imperielism free such as Taiwan (FORMOSA), South Korea and Grenada. Whereas other developed nations have simply allowed their former colonies to be plagued by turmoil or annexed to imperiel nations.

IN FINE:

The USA is in Iraq to secure the safety and liberty of the Iraqi people. It is radical muslims, sectarian hatred and despotic arab regimes that oppose this effort. Those in the west who oppose the USA's goals in Iraq have a political agenda of either eliminating Israel or demonizing the USA. It's very sad that the Iraqi people pay the harshest price for such demogoguery.

We know that you oppose the USA's actions, but do you support the security and liberty for the Iraqi people?
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Old 05-05-2008, 04:06 PM   #27
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Once again.... mate - newsflash if for some cultural reason teenage girls were not allowed an education so be it.... it is none of your business.... stop trying to build nations in your image, because seriously yours is nothing to gloat about.

Actually it's everybody's business- it was for example more than helpful that Europe outlawed slavery thus helping lead to it's demise in the Americas and elsewhere, or the determination of good people around the world that killed Apatheid in S Africa, or the work of Westerners that ended the binding of girls feet in China. These are people living in intolerable conditions and it is our duty and your's to change that.
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Old 05-05-2008, 06:42 PM   #28
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Once again.... mate - newsflash if for some cultural reason teenage girls were not allowed an education so be it.... it is none of your business.... stop trying to build nations in your image, because seriously yours is nothing to gloat about.
LOL ... the number one nation in the world is nothing to gloat about?

LMAO
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Old 05-05-2008, 08:12 PM   #29
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LOL ... the number one nation in the world is nothing to gloat about?

LMAO

Erm..it might if it was all your own work -but frankly I doubt it that it is... and gloating in general is an pretty ugly display.
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Old 05-05-2008, 09:49 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by USroguestate View Post
Once again.... mate - newsflash if for some cultural reason teenage girls were not allowed an education so be it.... it is none of your business.... stop trying to build nations in your image, because seriously yours is nothing to gloat about.
I bet your tune would change in an insta-second if you suddenly were living under the islamic code of law. But judging from your posts you might not ever know the difference. And these things are easy for you to say when you are so far down under.

And talk about one's country (yours)- OMG!!! you Aussie imports sure know how to mess with someone's lives big time - what you guys are doing (STILL TO THIS DAY!!!) to the Aboriginal peoples is about as nasty as you can get.

"Australia is ranked as one of the 'worst wealthy nations' at improving the health of indigenous people."

source: http://socialistworld.net/eng/2007/07/10australia.html

So - as the saying goes "dont worry about the splinter in someone else' eye when you have a log sticking out of yours". And if you practice what you preach then remember this in regards to America's culture of "getting involved" - "if for some cultural reason... so be it.... it is none of your business.... stop trying to build nations in your image" ala YOU.

See what you are doing to yourself?
Probably not but I have faith that your extreme views of will come around to a bit of realistic sense in time.
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