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Old 08-13-2016, 03:26 PM   #1
Greatest I am
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Default Why did we stop inventing gods?

Why did we stop inventing gods?

The ancients were quite good at inventing new gods. The bible shows that the Jews invented many gods before deciding that god could not be defined and settled for I am, as the greatest expression of god. I am as spoken as a man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJkNs512Lsk

Jews, in their oral tradition, gave man the last word in what god and his policies were to be. They accepted that the man they chose as head Rabbi of their Divine council had the power to overrule their written tradition. Mans words, not an imaginary god, had the final say on policy. Man was supreme and not one of the imaginary gods.

Christianity then changed much of the morals and policies of their newly invented god, Yahweh, and also transferred the power of god to a man. Jesus. Jesus was now placed at the power seat at the right hand of his newly invented god and placed Yahweh in the right hemisphere of the brain, as shown in the art of the day as depicted by Michelangelo in his creation painting in the Vatican.

Islam then invented Allah, and so far, rightfully named him the last god to be invented. Foolish but true to date.

I see that search for a god as a search for the best laws and rules to live life by. After all, we cannot follow an imaginary god and can only follow the laws and rules that those imaginary gods has spoken, recognizing of course, that only a person can speak those laws and rules and that it was really a wise person who was uttering those words.

Gnostic Christians always saw those invented gods, specifically Yahweh, Jesus and Allah, as immoral and not worthy of us and that is why they named those gods as immoral and vile demiurges. This is not to say that those demiurges did not have some good policies but only says that a better god could and should be invented. Gnostic Christianity lost the god wars and was decimated the moment Christianity gained political power which they used to end freedom of religion.

Are immoral demiurges like Yahweh, Jesus and Allah, the best that mankind can come up with?

Why do you think we stopped inventing gods and settled for demonstrably immoral ones?

Regards
DL

P.S. Gods are the opium of the people.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6uEMOeDZsA
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Old 08-16-2016, 01:44 AM   #2
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Godhood is inseparably linked to power. A god deity is a god specifically because it possesses power. Otherwise it would merely be a spirit, a ghost, or a lower magical being such as a sprite, a pan, or a monster. Polytheist religions distribute power among more than one god, each god usually having specific powers within certain delineated functions: the god of fertility/the harvest, the god of beauty/love, the god of war, the god of the oceans, the lightning & thunder god, the god who brings rain, the sun god....etc.

Once you posit one all powerful all knowing creator of everything, you're done. Everything else is second rate, and thus unworthy of being a god. The previous gods become either false gods or higher beings explainable through science fiction which might become science fact in the future....but they cannot remain gods.

What kind of god do you want/propose?
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Last edited by ericredbeard; 08-16-2016 at 01:50 AM.
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Old 08-25-2016, 01:11 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericredbeard View Post
Godhood is inseparably linked to power. A god deity is a god specifically because it possesses power. Otherwise it would merely be a spirit, a ghost, or a lower magical being such as a sprite, a pan, or a monster. Polytheist religions distribute power among more than one god, each god usually having specific powers within certain delineated functions: the god of fertility/the harvest, the god of beauty/love, the god of war, the god of the oceans, the lightning & thunder god, the god who brings rain, the sun god....etc.

Once you posit one all powerful all knowing creator of everything, you're done. Everything else is second rate, and thus unworthy of being a god. The previous gods become either false gods or higher beings explainable through science fiction which might become science fact in the future....but they cannot remain gods.

What kind of god do you want/propose?
One whose policies are demonstrably moral.

That eliminates Yahweh and Allah whose policies are demonstrably immoral.

I know this as a fact because Christians and Muslims always run from discussions on the morality of their gods.

Regards
DL
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Old 11-05-2016, 03:42 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatest I am View Post
One whose policies are demonstrably moral.

That eliminates Yahweh and Allah whose policies are demonstrably immoral.

I know this as a fact because Christians and Muslims always run from discussions on the morality of their gods.

Regards
DL
Moral according to what standard? The standard which benefits you? How righteous, to demand that what is moral be so defined. How absurd, to first require that the Creator of the Universe and its order be accountable to man's needs, and then to declare that if it is not accountable to our needs then it must not even exist! LOL. The egomania it takes to believe that your needs are necessarily at or even near the center of the Creator of the Universe's priorities is blinding. We are not in any position to demand anything.

Christians and Muslims do not run from discussions on the morality of their god. The morality of God and the complete lack of any necessity for God to account for Himself to you or mankind is treated bluntly in the Book of Job:

Then the LORD answered Job out of the storm. He said:
2 "Who is this that darkens my counsel
with words without knowledge?

3 Brace yourself like a man;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.

4 "Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.

5 Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?

6 On what were its footings set,
or who laid its cornerstone-

7 while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels shouted for joy?

(text continues listing God's works...)
...

The LORD said to Job:

2 "Will the one who contends with the Almighty correct him?
Let him who accuses God answer him!"

Then Job replied to the LORD :
2 "I know that you can do all things;
no plan of yours can be thwarted.

3 You asked, 'Who is this that obscures my counsel without knowledge?'
Surely I spoke of things I did not understand,
things too wonderful for me to know.

4 "You said, 'Listen now, and I will speak;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.'

5 My ears had heard of you
but now my eyes have seen you.

6 Therefore I despise myself
and repent in dust and ashes."
http://www.ucs.louisiana.edu/~ras277...uality/job.htm
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"...and I have an angry mob, that will roast and eat your 'men of quality' in the ashes of the Senate House" --- Marc Antony, HBO's ROME
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Old 11-05-2016, 08:35 PM   #5
Greatest I am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericredbeard View Post
Moral according to what standard? The standard which benefits you? How righteous, to demand that what is moral be so defined. How absurd, to first require that the Creator of the Universe and its order be accountable to man's needs, and then to declare that if it is not accountable to our needs then it must not even exist! LOL. The egomania it takes to believe that your needs are necessarily at or even near the center of the Creator of the Universe's priorities is blinding. We are not in any position to demand anything.

Christians and Muslims do not run from discussions on the morality of their god. The morality of God and the complete lack of any necessity for God to account for Himself to you or mankind is treated bluntly in the Book of Job:

Then the LORD answered Job out of the storm. He said:
2 "Who is this that darkens my counsel
with words without knowledge?

3 Brace yourself like a man;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.

4 "Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.

5 Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?

6 On what were its footings set,
or who laid its cornerstone-

7 while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels shouted for joy?

(text continues listing God's works...)
...

The LORD said to Job:

2 "Will the one who contends with the Almighty correct him?
Let him who accuses God answer him!"

Then Job replied to the LORD :
2 "I know that you can do all things;
no plan of yours can be thwarted.

3 You asked, 'Who is this that obscures my counsel without knowledge?'
Surely I spoke of things I did not understand,
things too wonderful for me to know.

4 "You said, 'Listen now, and I will speak;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.'

5 My ears had heard of you
but now my eyes have seen you.

6 Therefore I despise myself
and repent in dust and ashes."
http://www.ucs.louisiana.edu/~ras277...uality/job.htm

"Moral according to what standard?"

By mine which I like to compare with theists but they run from that discussion as it proves their poor morals to themselves.

"How absurd, to first require that the Creator of the Universe and its order be accountable to man's needs, `

Really.

Do the strong in your family serve the weak or do you expect the weak serve the strong?

Give your argument for the weak serving the strong instead of what we do naturally.

I like the story of Job but not from the way you read it.

It shows how much of a prick Yahweh can be when he has a bet to win.

This quote shows God even admitting to being evil ands a sinner.

Job 2;3 and he still holdeth fast his integrity, although thou didst move Me against him, to destroy him without cause.'

God, by allowing and encouraging Satan to act in an evil way is God facilitating evil and that shows just how evil that demiurge is.

I look forward to your argument as to why we should serve such an immoral prick.

Regards
DL
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Old 11-05-2016, 10:19 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatest I am View Post
"Moral according to what standard?"

By mine which I like to compare with theists but they run from that discussion as it proves their poor morals to themselves.

"How absurd, to first require that the Creator of the Universe and its order be accountable to man's needs, `

Really.

Do the strong in your family serve the weak or do you expect the weak serve the strong?

Give your argument for the weak serving the strong instead of what we do naturally.

I like the story of Job but not from the way you read it.

It shows how much of a prick Yahweh can be when he has a bet to win.

This quote shows God even admitting to being evil ands a sinner.

Job 2;3 and he still holdeth fast his integrity, although thou didst move Me against him, to destroy him without cause.'

God, by allowing and encouraging Satan to act in an evil way is God facilitating evil and that shows just how evil that demiurge is.

I look forward to your argument as to why we should serve such an immoral prick.

Regards
DL
I of coarse can't speak for Eric but I believe you have misinterpreted his post
It is not a matter of why you should or should not serve any thing
To my mind the universe is neither hostile or benevolent.
To assume that a creator should or should not take your morality into the equation is not even as much as your consideration of a cockroaches rights before you step on it.
To consider that the gods may not be moral in your existence is simply an infinite and false elevation your importance to a cosmic clock work on wich you have zero effect.
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Old 08-17-2016, 05:26 PM   #7
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People that spoke with god used to be called prophets.

People that now claim to speak with god are called nuts!

The creation of Gods tends to rely on people believing a improvable claim. Natural Phenomenon formally attributed to God where once proof enough for most people, scientific explanations made those events unable to be used as proof of new claims.
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Old 08-25-2016, 01:15 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SHUTUPANDTHINK View Post
People that spoke with god used to be called prophets.

People that now claim to speak with god are called nuts!

The creation of Gods tends to rely on people believing a improvable claim. Natural Phenomenon formally attributed to God where once proof enough for most people, scientific explanations made those events unable to be used as proof of new claims.
I agree with your first.

I will agree with your second with the caveat that it is ok if one calls god, I am, and means him or herself. To a Gnostic Christian, there is no higher power than ourselves. We are free thinkers.

Regards
DL
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Old 08-18-2016, 01:16 AM   #9
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In polytheism there is always a superior god.
If you'll pardon the pun, a godfather to all the other gods.
A good example of this is the American Indian, all through North and South America, they had the "Great Creator", while all the other gods were the wind the rain the lighting the heat/cold the fire the diseases. Different animals had different spirits, what we call today demi-gods. This is well documented all the way back to the 1500's beginning with the Spanish.
Monotheism took this one step further, to say there is only one God worthy of worship, and there are no other gods, while still recognizing the demi-gods and spirits as angels and demons or jinn.
sort of a unique dichotomy, isn't it!
Even atheism has theologic/religious origins and pre-logic foundations that can be called god-like. It's called Scientific Communism/Socialism.
It's obvious we humans now worship ourselves and what we think we create.
Prostrating ourselves before our very own creation, that we no longer have any control over.
Welcome to the machine......



You are now a slave to the collective creation.
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Old 08-25-2016, 01:18 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BurntBulb View Post
In polytheism there is always a superior god.
If you'll pardon the pun, a godfather to all the other gods.
A good example of this is the American Indian, all through North and South America, they had the "Great Creator", while all the other gods were the wind the rain the lighting the heat/cold the fire the diseases. Different animals had different spirits, what we call today demi-gods. This is well documented all the way back to the 1500's beginning with the Spanish.
Monotheism took this one step further, to say there is only one God worthy of worship, and there are no other gods, while still recognizing the demi-gods and spirits as angels and demons or jinn.
sort of a unique dichotomy, isn't it!
Even atheism has theologic/religious origins and pre-logic foundations that can be called god-like. It's called Scientific Communism/Socialism.
It's obvious we humans now worship ourselves and what we think we create.
Prostrating ourselves before our very own creation, that we no longer have any control over.
Welcome to the machine......



You are now a slave to the collective creation.
But we do have control over our inventions.

All it takes is political will and all things become possible.

Regards
DL
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