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Old 02-27-2018, 12:09 AM   #81
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I really like the series. The best scene in my opinion and really captures the entire Waco incident was when the FBI negotiator (in reality there were 24 negotiators which in and of itself was part of the problem) confront the leader of the FBI's HRT (Hostage Rescue Team). In reality HRT is more like an assault team than hostage rescue. I think they chose the acronym for it's phonetics - hurt - rather than for what it stands for. As in, we hurt people.

Anyway, I'm paraphrasing.....

Hostage negotiator: Could you go to FBI on-site head and tell him to stop the psyops torture?

HRT leader: Why can't you?

Negotiator: He's only listening to you now and the psyops are counter productive to what I'm trying to accomplish. How many of them have come out since the psyops started? None.

HRT leader: 5,000 to one.

Negotiator: What?

HRT leader: 5,000 to one. That's how much we're outnumbered in this country. If we let these Branch Davidians get away with it, the public is going to realize how badly we're outnumbered. It would cause chaos.


I think that exchange absolutely encapsulates what's wrong with law enforcement. The public isn't in anarchy because the public thinks they won't win against law enforcement. Most of the public has never even thought about it. Most of the public is law abiding, more than 90% of Americans have never spend a day in jail. The public follows the rules because most of us understand the value of a people living by a rule of law. Most of cooperate because first, that's what humans do as a species and secondly, because no rightly ordered person wants to be a cheat, thief or lawbreaker. I don't think David Koresh wanted to be any of those either. He may have been, but I don't think he was trying to be. The problem is HRT couldn't tell the difference between a basically law abiding but quirky group of people and a criminal gang. That, to me, sums up the entire problem with law enforcement, even to today. btw, I don't think most law enforcement thinks that way at all, especially not local law enforcement. Most members of law enforcement are good people doing their sheep dog job.

So, what I'm saying is this......when most everyone tries to understand Waco, the psychology of David Koresh and his followers usually becomes the obsessive focus. On the contrary, it was the psychology of the FBI, the ATF, HRT is just as important if not crucial to understanding how and why 87 lives were lost.
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Old 02-27-2018, 01:29 AM   #82
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxCQ...=WacoSiege1993

What to look for:
Quote:
6. At 11:24:31, the FLIR is recording events in the rear of the building, where the Combat Engineering Vehicle [CEV] has partially demolished the area known as the "gymnasium." The FLIR shows several flashes appearing from a point to the left of the CEV. These are elongated in shape, several feet long, and appear and disappear at a regular rate with regular spacing between them. I note five flashes from one point, appearing and disappearing at the rate of 7-10 per second. At this location some non-flashing movement also appears visible. There is no natural explanation for these flashes. Natural phenomena do not heat and cool in fractions of a second. My expert opinion is that these flashes appear to be the muzzle flashes of a fully-automatic firearm, firing at about 500 rounds per minute cyclic rate. Carefully examined, in slow motion and by frame-to-frame observation, the flashes originate to the left and progress to the right, indicating that they are being fired from a source outside the building, and fired into the building.

7. At 11:42:56, the aircraft bearing the FLIR is circling the side of the building. A hot image is visible inside the side, ground floor, window of the "corner tower." As the aircraft continues its movement the image vanishes, underscoring the fact that the image is of a hot object inside the room, the sight of which is lost as the aircraft moves on and alters its perspective through the window.

8. At 11:44:52, a momentary flash of radiation is seen to the rear of the central "tower." This may be at a location in the open area to the immediate rear of the building. The flash is visible for ten frames, approximately a third of a second, much longer than the flashes described above. It is not possible with these data to determine the cause or source of the flash.

9. At 11:47:50, the FLIR is recording events at the front of the building. A CEV has driven into the building, withdrawn, and has a large piece of rubble lodged on the front of the vehicle. An individual is dimly visible exiting the vehicle, walking to its front, and dislodging the rubble. The CEV is at this point halted within a vehicle length, perhaps twenty feet, of the front of the building.

10. At 12:07:40-42, the aircraft bearing the FLIR is circling past the right tower. A heat source, long and narrow in form, quickly appears across a window of the tower. Upon careful examination, slow motion and frame-by-frame, I believe this is more likely to be a heat source outside the window, than one inside it. It is noteworthy that the image does not vanish or fade as the aircraft flies past, in contrast to the heat signature noted at 11:42:56.

11. At 12:08:32, the FLIR depicts events at the rear of the building, where the large "gymnasium" structure has largely been demolished. Two very bright thermal flashes are visible near to or in the window at the center, in front of and to one side of the CEV which is stopped there. I see no natural explanation for these flashes. They would not, for instance, be reflections of sunlight off glass.

12. At 12:08:52 there are again radiation flashes, which I believe to be firearms fire, from the side and rear of the CEV. Again, when carefully examined they appear to move in the direction of the building.

13. In brief, my examination of the FLIR tape indicates:

a. An analysis of the tape, field by field, reveals thermal flashes occurring that have pulse times and time intervals between them consistent with the intervals of automatic weapons fire. Pulses of approximately 1/15 second occur. There are no naturally occurring phenomena that could explain these events.

b. Other thermal flashes of radiation, approximately 1/3 second in duration, occur in various areas of the building complex. Again, no naturally-occurring phenomena can explain this.

I declare under penalty of perjury that the above is true and correct.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOW6UbAVs8A
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Old 02-27-2018, 02:11 AM   #83
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Interesting stuff. If you'll notice when the fire begins, it seems to start simultaneously from multiple areas of the building. The cunt leaders of the Davidians burnt their children to death. It's pretty damn selfish and ungodly.

But the way the Government handled this situation makes me fucking sick. Shady shit. I believe they provoked Koresh and enticed him to fight in the end.
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Old 02-27-2018, 02:26 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by the demon View Post
Interesting stuff. If you'll notice when the fire begins, it seems to start simultaneously from multiple areas of the building. The cunt leaders of the Davidians burnt their children to death. It's pretty damn selfish and ungodly.

But the way the Government handled this situation makes me fucking sick. Shady shit. I believe they provoked Koresh and enticed him to fight in the end.
I don't believe the Branch Davidians set the fire. There's evidence both ways. I believe the fire was set in the "dog run" portion of the gym and created a flue of sorts that set a fire ball into the South tower of the structure. I believe the fire that started in the kitchen segment was set by whoever the actors were east (rear) of the structure.

I don't have the time right now, but I'll point out to you several things on that very shitty copy of the FLIR tape later. The government refuses to release a copy of the full and complete analog version. The copy posted here is VHS copy of a copy of a copy.
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Old 02-27-2018, 02:55 AM   #85
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As an American Canadian I am proud that Paul Parnitzke has the right to ask or say anything he chooses. It only takes two play. Where everyone else is, that be your business not mine.

PS I am not feeding anyone
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Old 02-27-2018, 03:03 AM   #86
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If they could of arrested David in town but didn't - street wisdom says someone had a personal vendetta and it snowballed from shithead that lead Ruby Ridge all the way to the top. If they "the government" kill you deliberately you're fucked.

At least Frank Olson family was able to sue. Watch Wormwood six part series.

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Old 02-27-2018, 02:24 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by whatduh View Post
As an American Canadian I am proud that Paul Parnitzke has the right to ask or say anything he chooses. It only takes two play. Where everyone else is, that be your business not mine.

PS I am not feeding anyone
Thanks!
Too bad you do not have​ the same rights in leftist Canada.
The maple leaf is not red nor just because of Autumn either.
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Old 02-27-2018, 02:30 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by whatduh View Post
If they could of arrested David in town but didn't - street wisdom says someone had a personal vendetta and it snowballed from shithead that lead Ruby Ridge all the way to the top. If they "the government" kill you deliberately you're fucked.

At least Frank Olson family was able to sue. Watch Wormwood six part series.

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Of course they could have arrested DK anytime beforehand during his daily jog and really all without much incident.
The same for Ruby Ridge, and of which was just another set up and abuse of government power.
See:
http://nstarzone.com/RIDGE.html

"If you look at what has happened since the August 1992 outrage at Ruby Ridge, you can see why this event was the turning point for America.

Shortly afterwards you had the election of Bill Clinton, possibly the most corrupt individual to ever slither into the White House.

That was followed by the atrocities at Waco, the OKC bombing, school and office massacres on scales unseen before, and then came September 11 2001, and the police state, wars, and chaos that followed.

God has been lifting his blessing off this nation in more noticable ways than ever, and I believe it all began right around the time of Ruby Ridge.

The United States government was created to serve it's citizens, not to entrap them, not to defame them, and not to falsify evidence against them, something we have forgotten in this post 9-11 age of Homeland Security.

What can be done about the deaths of Vicki Weaver, a mother who was killed with a baby in her arms, and Sammy Weaver, a 14 year old boy who was shot in the back, both innocent victims of their own government?

The killers of course got off the hook.

But we can let the people know what happened in Ruby Ridge on those 11 days in August 1992.

And never let them forget."

When "we the people" do not "actually hold the authorities responsible" then all such and equally horrible and tragic "domestic terrorism" most predictably and all naturally results.
All Cause and Effect.
See:
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/mcve...t-told-1.65997

"Mr Hartzler said that Mr McVeigh was motivated by revenge feelings against the government for its handling of the siege at Waco where a large number of the Branch Davidian sect and their families died.

Mr Hartzler said that federal agents later found a file in Mr McVeigh's sister computer that he obviously wanted them to read.
It was marked "ATF READ", an apparent reference to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms which was involved in the Waco siege.

It had the words: "All you tyrannical mother f...ers will swing in the wind some day for your treasonous actions against the Constitution ... Die you spineless, cowardice bastards.""

Last edited by Paul Parnitzke; 02-28-2018 at 05:32 PM. Reason: Added links.
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Old 02-28-2018, 01:08 AM   #89
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Interesting stuff. If you'll notice when the fire begins, it seems to start simultaneously from multiple areas of the building. The cunt leaders of the Davidians burnt their children to death. It's pretty damn selfish and ungodly.

But the way the Government handled this situation makes me fucking sick. Shady shit. I believe they provoked Koresh and enticed him to fight in the end.
I could go down the rabbit hole on the whole who set the fire argument but I decided not to.

Suffice it to say, the government (ATF, FBI, CAG, DOJ, and the Clinton administration) totally botched this entirely.

The only person who acted with integrity in the best interest of the public, the Davidians and the government, was FBI director William Sessions and Bill Clinton fired him. Sessions argued that he should go to Waco in person and negotiate or directly oversee the negotiations and HRT, but Janet Reno and Webster Hubbell wouldn't let him because, get this, I'm not making it up.......he traveled too much. So they barred William Sessions as the FBI director from boarding a plane. So Sessions obeyed his bosses and got fired anyway. btw, I'm not a huge fan of Sessions, but he's probably the best FBI director the U.S. has ever had.
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Old 03-02-2018, 05:58 PM   #90
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I finally had time to watch the last episode of Paramount's Waco.

IT IS WORTH IT. Even if you didn't like all the other episodes, that last one will knock your socks off. (yes, yes I did quote David Koresh, PBUH)
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