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Old 09-28-2017, 03:30 PM   #51
Aquina1300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skwint_hed View Post
they own you, they say jump
ROFLMAO!!! "they" isn't nearly the united group you tend to think they are. The reality is, there are way more Christians in the U.S. that support Israel than Jews.

There's one thing I don't understand about you and some other Euro people in regards to Israel. Israel doesn't affect you or yours in any real way. For most of it's existence, it had no effect on European nation states at all. If anything, the only effect was commie or Islamist terrorists groups wreaking havoc across the world which ya know, makes the commmie and Islamist terrorist groups the problem, not Israel.

Just pointing it out, not a damn thing in Scotland is affected by Israel or AIPAC. The fact that you're so invested in the issue emotionally and politically, is really akin to someone like me being really emotionally invested in what tribe is controlling the Congo or whether Argentina's laws are socially just for Japanese Minorities.

The only reason I can come up with, as to why so many euros are so obsessed with this issue when it has no impact on their lives, society, culture or politics, is that it's the commie/Muslim alliance rearing it's ugly head again. The left wing hates Israel because there's really no chance for multiculturalism in Israel and the old saw about how jews are the quintessential exploiting capitalists. (no, Israelis, don't even try to give me the Israel has jewish multiculturalism bullshit or some other crap about impoverished jews).

So why do you care so much about this issue? It's the only issue you regularly comment on. Tonyy was the same way. It's the only issue he ever really followed and all his other geopolitical positions followed from his beliefs about Israel's legitimacy. I just don't understand that reasoning at all.
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Last edited by Aquina1300; 09-28-2017 at 03:33 PM.
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Old 09-28-2017, 04:48 PM   #52
Paul Parnitzke
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Default HST was right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquina1300 View Post
Actually, Truman and Eisenhower both rejected a Jewish state of Israel. It's true that the U.S. was the first nation to congratulate and recognize the state of Israel but the U.S. was far from supporting and encouraging it. The new Israeli state designated by the UN in 1948 was mostly supported and encouraged by the nation states of Europe.


Source:
https://newrepublic.com/article/1162...truman-zionist


Source:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.3a7bf8e9fb28

It's just simply not true that America pushed for the creation of the Jewish state of Israel. The very month of May in 1948, George C. Marshall opposed it that very month as Secretary of State.

France, Britain and other European leaders were much more in favor of the Jewish state of Israel and it was first proposed in the UK in 1917.

Unlike the European nation states though, we didn't dump Israel when the going got tough. Remember, for decades, Israel was considered more on the side of the USSR in the Cold War than on the U.S. side. The U.S. became the mediator between Israel and Palestinians initially because Palestinian Muslims and Christians didn't trust the European nation states as an "honest broker". It was until after the Suez Canal incident that the U.S. was perceived as pro-Israel. By 1967, the European nation states had pretty much abandoned Israel and the U.S. was left holding the bag. This is exactly what Marshall and Truman predicted. They believed Israel, as a Jewish state, would develop into a intractable problem that would constantly pit the state against Muslims and Arab Christians. As Truman wrote in his diary about zionist "I don't think God picks any favorites".
God does not play favorites and nor is or was any real estate agent for anyone.
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Old 09-28-2017, 06:19 PM   #53
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Default Actually, pretty much true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skwint_hed View Post
they own you, they say jump
Actually, pretty much true.
Especially the politicians.
AIPAC controls USA FP.
Israeli leaders have "bragged" as much.
See:
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/che...a_thing_y.html
and:
https://www.elephantjournal.com/2015...akes-us-fight/

Last edited by Paul Parnitzke; 09-30-2017 at 05:04 PM. Reason: Added links.
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Old 09-28-2017, 07:09 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Parnitzke View Post
Actually, pretty much true.
Especially the politicians.
AIPAC controls USA FP.
Israeli leaders have bragged as much.
my goodness we agree on something - not sure how to take that
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Old 09-28-2017, 07:18 PM   #55
Paul Parnitzke
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Default Yeah, weird.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skwint_hed View Post
my goodness we agree on something - not sure how to take that
Yeah, weird.
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Old 09-28-2017, 09:12 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Parnitzke View Post
God does not play favorites and nor is or was any real estate agent for anyone.
yep, that's the quote right there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Parnitzke View Post
Actually, pretty much true.
Especially the politicians.
AIPAC controls USA FP.
Israeli leaders have bragged as much.
I really don't see it that way. I think it has much more to do with so many Americans believing Israel is just like America only Jewish. I've actually made that argument in the past. I wouldn't make it now though.
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Old 09-30-2017, 05:11 PM   #57
Paul Parnitzke
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Default Yes, it is!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquina1300 View Post
yep, that's the quote right there.
Yes, it is!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquina1300 View Post
I really don't see it that way. I think it has much more to do with so many Americans believing Israel is just like America only Jewish. I've actually made that argument in the past. I wouldn't make it now though.
I do see it that way as that is what all the factual evidence indicates.
See:
http://www.pewresearch.org/2006/07/1...srael-history/

That is true only due to carefully crafted and controlled propaganda.
See:
http://www.pewresearch.org/2006/05/0...xceptionalism/
"Only when people were asked about their basic sympathies in the Israeli-Palestinian dispute did religion emerge as a significant factor and even then, Americans cited media coverage as a stronger influence on their support for Israel.

Thus, while Americans are clearly nationalistic and quite religious, there is little evidence that either their patriotism or their faith drives public support for the more activist and unilateralist U.S. foreign policy that has fueled anti-Americanism in recent years."

Nor should you may it now, if you are actually a patriotic American
and a Citizen of the USA.
Israeli interests always all over USA or American interests?
See:
http://forums.liveleak.com/showpost....0&postcount=53

Not this patriot!

Last edited by Paul Parnitzke; 09-30-2017 at 05:27 PM. Reason: Added links to articles showing AIPAC undue influence over FP.
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Old 10-01-2017, 01:11 AM   #58
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Just by this above post, we can see that Parnitzke is a Socailist, to the extreme right.
And as all of us know, to the extreme left, is inevitab1e.
Yet they are one and the same.
The histrionics, the diatribe, the sophistry, the hysterics are all the same.
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Old 10-02-2017, 03:51 PM   #59
Paul Parnitzke
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Default I am anti-Tyranny and I am not any "Socialist", whatsoever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BurntBulb View Post
Just by this above post, we can see that Parnitzke is a Socailist, to the extreme right.
And as all of us know, to the extreme left, is inevitab1e.
Yet they are one and the same.
The histrionics, the diatribe, the sophistry, the hysterics are all the same.
What are you yapping about, BB, with such total nonsense?
What alleged "histrionics, diatribe, sophistry, or hysterics"?
My valid links to the facts of the "AIPAC" control of USA FP?
See also:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gvU...ature=youtu.be
and this paper by the neo-cons all prior to the "9/11 attack" that
"justified" this expensive "rebuilding" actually "the squandering"
of more USA resources:
http://www.informationclearinghouse....asDefenses.pdf

And it explains much of all of the recent hysterically rabid "anti-Russian" propaganda:
https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/s...m-f857201743d3
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As Noam Chomsky puts it:

“Control of thought is more important for governments that are free and popular than for despotic and military states. The logic is straightforward: a despotic state can control its domestic enemies by force, but as the state loses this weapon, other devices are required to prevent the ignorant masses from interfering with public affairs, which are none of their business…the public are to be observers, not participants, consumers of ideology as well as products.”

Don’t let them control your mind.
Fight the propaganda machine, disrupt their craven agendas, and wake up the others.
================================================== =====

I think that those words, "histrionics, diatribe, sophistry, or hysterics",
really "do describe" the rabid Neo-Con "Israel-firsters".
Especially, and far more than any truly patriotic or "America First" USA citizens,
and also whose own relatives were military veterans.
See:
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WR...ssliberty.html

I am "anti-Tyranny" and I am not any "Socialist", whatsoever.
I am not any "extremist", of either the left or the right, at all.
I agree that extremists are one and the same but I am neither.

Last edited by Paul Parnitzke; 10-02-2017 at 04:37 PM. Reason: Added link to the 1967 deliberate attack on the USS Liberty by IDF forces.
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Old 10-02-2017, 06:48 PM   #60
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Truman did say

"The persistence of a few of the extreme Zionist leaders—actuated by political motives and engaging in political threats—disturbed and annoyed me."

buuuut.....the United States did vote for the Partition Plan/UN Resolution 181.

The United States may have officially tried to remain fair and impartial in the conflict between Israeli interests and Arab interests, but ultimately these interests are irreconcilable, and coming down in fact of action as 49% with the Arabs and 51% with Israel hasn't ever qualified the USA as impartial or fair. The USA is on Israel's side. Americans who aren't subjects of the christian dogma claiming that the Jews are 'God's chosen people...' can claim that the US isn't necessarily supporting Israel as Israel wishes when Israel wishes....but that is just as emasculated as the husband who tells his friends that 'he is the master of his house'...while he at home he washes the dishes after dinner, takes out the trash, does the laundry, makes the bed, and does the vacuuming in addition to keeping the yard tidy and changing the oil in all of the vehicles...while wifey visits her friends. He's been cucked, and so has the USA.

Massive aid packages, military aid packages, Iron Dome deployment, guilt money from Germany....Israelis are boldly effective in wrenching sheckels out of whatever pockets will yield them. And that's a good thing if it helps God's oppressed, Chosen People, eh? (Don't look now, but that 'poor, oppressed throughout history' shtick has been adopted by American Blacks and Progressives to great effect as well. Nothing is quite the pushover like a Christian burdened with his Sin wanting to live up to his religious ideals of charity and atonement...)

Don't get me wrong, I'd side with Israel every time against the genocidal Muslims. But skip all the fatuous moral posturing about Israel being the 'light of the world, etc. This upright Pagan isn't buying it. I'd reduce our 'aid' payments to both Israel and the Arab world...and most other places...by 90%. Like the guy Progressives love to hate says, America first. (That's what everyone else practices, but PC decrees it's 'a sin' if an American or a European nationalist says it....).
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Last edited by ericredbeard; 10-02-2017 at 09:22 PM.
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