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Old 12-29-2015, 05:02 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by ericredbeard View Post


Muskets marching in the open against artillery and rifles (aimed by people who shot squirrels out of trees for dinner) firing from behind a stone wall fronted by a canal....no surprise it ended much like the Charge Of The Light Brigade in the Crimean War.

You do know of course that the " Squirrel gun farmers" stuff is just another myth...By the time this battle happened..Most of your army had been soldiers either in war at home..or from Europe...a lot from the wars in Europe...Germans..Austrians...French..British..Iri sh..Scots..etc...: )
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Old 12-29-2015, 10:39 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by ericredbeard View Post
What a wonderful war. As the OP points out, nothing was lost (except by the Native Americans and let's face it neither the Brits nor the Americans cared about them anyway), and both countries had victories to savor (if not in the "American War"). Americans would take satisfaction in the end of British impressment of US sailors, and Brits could savor their victory over Napoleon elsewhere. Canada would remain a Commonwealth nation, and Andrew Jackson's route of the invasion force threatening New Orleans would be celebrated by Yanks through the years.

It's a rare war that both sides think they've won.
The objective of the War was to make Canada American.

The US was soundly beaten on land and at Sea.
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Old 12-29-2015, 02:04 PM   #13
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ITT,

We beat you in a war 200 years ago (even though you've been the sole superpower of the world for 70 years)


We won, we beat you nah nah nah nah nahh nahhhhh
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Old 12-29-2015, 02:13 PM   #14
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ITT,

We beat you in a war 200 years ago (even though you've been the sole superpower of the world for 70 years)


We won, we beat you nah nah nah nah nahh nahhhhh
You forget about the USSR then?
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Old 12-29-2015, 04:41 PM   #15
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You forget about the USSR then?
I apologize, they were a superpower through intimidation, we were and still are through our military, space agency, economy, industry, universities, culture (movies etc.), innovations etc etc etc.







































































But you won that war in 1812, good job!
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Old 12-29-2015, 10:07 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by bran View Post
You do know of course that the " Squirrel gun farmers" stuff is just another myth...By the time this battle happened..Most of your army had been soldiers either in war at home..or from Europe...a lot from the wars in Europe...Germans..Austrians...French..British..Iri sh..Scots..etc...: )
What do you think those American riflemen were before they put on the uniforms? It's ok, I understand that that the English mind finds it neigh impossible to accept that mere peasants with rifles can slaughter "proper troops" armed with muskets...even when the troops are wearing brightly colored uniforms while marching in the open. It just isn't proper to those conditioned by their masters to think that commoners aren't fit until they've been trained by their superior! The immigrant untrained with rifles were used as artillerymen, engineers, and were armed with muskets and shitguns when available. Otherwise, recruits were encouraged to show up with their own rifles...and utilized as riflemen when they showed themselves proficient.

I'm sure that the French nobility had similar difficulties accepting their slaughters at the wrong end of English longbows such as the one at Agincourt in 1415. King Henry III encouraged his peon subjects to develop proficiency with the bow back in 1363 by officially declaring
"Whereas the people of our realm, rich and poor alike, were accustomed formerly in their games to practise archery – whence by God's help, it is well known that high honour and profit came to our realm, and no small advantage to ourselves in our warlike enterprises... that every man in the same country, if he be able-bodied, shall, upon holidays, make use, in his games, of bows and arrows... and so learn and practise archery." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_longbow

England profited from their expertise, just as the US profited greatly from proficient marksmen.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvin_C._York


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Originally Posted by seanjo View Post
The objective of the War was to make Canada American.

The US was soundly beaten on land and at Sea.
Tell it to the men sent to take New Orleans. LOL

The impressment of American sailors into the British Navy ended as a result of that war. That was also a key objective from the American perspective.
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Old 12-29-2015, 10:35 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by ericredbeard View Post
What do you think those American riflemen were before they put on the uniforms? It's ok, I understand that that the English mind finds it neigh impossible to accept that mere peasants with rifles can slaughter "proper troops" armed with muskets...even when the troops are wearing brightly colored uniforms while marching in the open. It just isn't proper to those conditioned by their masters to think that commoners aren't fit until they've been trained by their superior! The immigrant untrained with rifles were used as artillerymen, engineers, and were armed with muskets and shitguns when available. Otherwise, recruits were encouraged to show up with their own rifles...and utilized as riflemen when they showed themselves proficient.

I'm sure that the French nobility had similar difficulties accepting their slaughters at the wrong end of English longbows such as the one at Agincourt in 1415. King Henry III encouraged his peon subjects to develop proficiency with the bow back in 1363 by officially declaring
"Whereas the people of our realm, rich and poor alike, were accustomed formerly in their games to practise archery – whence by God's help, it is well known that high honour and profit came to our realm, and no small advantage to ourselves in our warlike enterprises... that every man in the same country, if he be able-bodied, shall, upon holidays, make use, in his games, of bows and arrows... and so learn and practise archery." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_longbow

England profited from their expertise, just as the US profited greatly from proficient marksmen.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvin_C._York




Tell it to the men sent to take New Orleans. LOL

The impressment of American sailors into the British Navy ended as a result of that war. That was also a key objective from the American perspective.
What is this thing..why do some people think this way?...
I am not stupid..or brainwashed...its the truth..we lost the "War of independance"..thats the truth...i have no difficukty in believing what happened...but it IS a myth about your army being just farmers etc..yes there were farmers there..but by 1812 MOST men in the American forces had served..or were ex regulars of foreign armies who had emigrated to America...YOU have a chip on yer shoulder..big as a big thing..not me...
I love history..and if its my country getting its arse kicked?...i still want the truth..and enjoy it AS HISTORY...nothing about it matters today..i have no axe to grind with any previous enemies from hundreds of years ago...

Peasants?..what fucking century do you live in?..ffs..
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Old 12-30-2015, 02:54 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by bran View Post
What is this thing..why do some people think this way?...
I am not stupid..or brainwashed...its the truth..we lost the "War of independance"..thats the truth...i have no difficukty in believing what happened...but it IS a myth about your army being just farmers etc..yes there were farmers there..but by 1812 MOST men in the American forces had served..or were ex regulars of foreign armies who had emigrated to America...YOU have a chip on yer shoulder..big as a big thing..not me...
I love history..and if its my country getting its arse kicked?...i still want the truth..and enjoy it AS HISTORY...nothing about it matters today..i have no axe to grind with any previous enemies from hundreds of years ago...

Peasants?..what fucking century do you live in?..ffs..
Citations please! I'm open to information justifying your claim, but otherwise it is just a claim. If that sounds like "a chip on my shoulder" then you have my apologies for your thin skin condition. It is, however, Brits in this thread declaring that the US was defeated on both land and sea....when that simply isn't the case here.

The battle was remarkable for both its brevity and lopsided lethality. In the space of twenty-five minutes, the British lost 700 killed, 1400 wounded and 500 prisoners, a total loss of twenty-six hundred men; American losses were only seven killed and six wounded.[48][49] Adjutant-general Robert Butler, in his official report to General Jackson a few days after the battle of the 8th, placed the losses of the British at 700 killed, 1400 wounded, and 500 prisoners - the total of 2600 casualties was almost one third the entire number the enemy admitted to have taken part in the contest of the day. After the battle was over, around 500 British soldiers who had pretended to be dead rose up and surrendered to the Americans. One bugle boy climbed a tree within 200 yards of the American line and played throughout the battle, with shooting whizzing around him. He was captured after the battle and considered a hero by the Americans.

... Jackson's army of 4,732 men comprised 968 US Army regulars,[33] 58 US Marines (holding the center of the defensive line), 106 seamen of the US Naval battalion, 1,060 Louisiana Militia and volunteers (including 462 free people of color), 1,352 Tennessee Militia, 986 Kentucky Militia, 150 Mississippi Militia and 52 Choctaw warriors, along with a force of the pirate Jean Lafitte's Baratarians.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_New_Orleans

Are you really contending that militia from the states of Tennessee, Kentucky, Mississippi, and Louisiana (3548 out of a force of 4732 men) weren't preponderantly hunters proficient with rifles FFS?!? Are you even familiar with the fact that squirrel hunting was a ubiquitous pastime in those heavily wooded areas, and continues to be popular to this day??? Christ on a crutch, stick to what you know man...whatever that is. In any case, excepting German and Swiss immigrants with a longstanding heritage of rifle marksmanship, ex military men from Europe wouldn't have used anything but muskets, not rifles. Only a modern European ignorant of the specifics of American history (and an Englishman with a long heritage of antipathy towards private arms ownership in particular) would bloviate such twaddle about "myth".

It's a right close contest between Frenchmen and Englishmen to see who can be more arrogant in assuming their superiority. At least the French show some charm and grace in the process. Englishmen simply stretch out their jaws and insist that they are correct... How tedious. Post your citations or take a pass.
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Old 12-30-2015, 03:28 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by bran View Post
What is this thing..why do some people think this way?...
I am not stupid..or brainwashed...its the truth..we lost the "War of independance"..thats the truth...i have no difficukty in believing what happened...but it IS a myth about your army being just farmers etc..yes there were farmers there..but by 1812 MOST men in the American forces had served..or were ex regulars of foreign armies who had emigrated to America...YOU have a chip on yer shoulder..big as a big thing..not me...
I love history..and if its my country getting its arse kicked?...i still want the truth..and enjoy it AS HISTORY...nothing about it matters today..i have no axe to grind with any previous enemies from hundreds of years ago...

Peasants?..what fucking century do you live in?..ffs..
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericredbeard View Post
Citations please! I'm open to information justifying your claim, but otherwise it is just a claim. If that sounds like "a chip on my shoulder" then you have my apologies for your thin skin condition. It is, however, Brits in this thread declaring that the US was defeated on both land and sea....when that simply isn't the case here.

The battle was remarkable for both its brevity and lopsided lethality. In the space of twenty-five minutes, the British lost 700 killed, 1400 wounded and 500 prisoners, a total loss of twenty-six hundred men; American losses were only seven killed and six wounded.[48][49] Adjutant-general Robert Butler, in his official report to General Jackson a few days after the battle of the 8th, placed the losses of the British at 700 killed, 1400 wounded, and 500 prisoners - the total of 2600 casualties was almost one third the entire number the enemy admitted to have taken part in the contest of the day. After the battle was over, around 500 British soldiers who had pretended to be dead rose up and surrendered to the Americans. One bugle boy climbed a tree within 200 yards of the American line and played throughout the battle, with shooting whizzing around him. He was captured after the battle and considered a hero by the Americans.

... Jackson's army of 4,732 men comprised 968 US Army regulars,[33] 58 US Marines (holding the center of the defensive line), 106 seamen of the US Naval battalion, 1,060 Louisiana Militia and volunteers (including 462 free people of color), 1,352 Tennessee Militia, 986 Kentucky Militia, 150 Mississippi Militia and 52 Choctaw warriors, along with a force of the pirate Jean Lafitte's Baratarians.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_New_Orleans

Are you really contending that militia from the states of Tennessee, Kentucky, and Louisiana weren't hunters proficient with rifles FFS?!? Are you even familiar with the fact that squirrel hunting was a ubiquitous pastime in those heavily wooded areas, and continues to be to this day??? In any case, excepting German and Swiss with a longstanding heritage of rifle marksmanship, ex military men from Europe wouldn't have used anything but muskets, not rifles. Christ on a crutch, stick to what you know man...whatever that is.


It's a right close contest between Frenchmen and Englishmen to see who can be more arrogant in assuming their superiority. At least the French show some charm and grace in the process. Englishmen simply stretch out their jaws and insist that they are correct... How tedious. Post your citations or take a pass.
You must admit bran, the British have a history of the big set piece, frontal assaults that are often disasterous in large number for the poor Tommy, the whole Piper marching thru the hail of fire while men fall around him, the Somme where men were to walk not run directly into enemy machine gun fire, up until that time it was Britain's method of delivering overwhelming fire power, didn't always work and wasn't always smart militarily
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Old 12-30-2015, 03:29 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by ericredbeard View Post
citations please! I'm open to information justifying your claim, but otherwise it is just a claim. If that sounds like "a chip on my shoulder" then you have my apologies for your thin skin condition. It is, however, brits in this thread declaring that the us was defeated on both land and sea....when that simply isn't the case here.

The battle was remarkable for both its brevity and lopsided lethality. In the space of twenty-five minutes, the british lost 700 killed, 1400 wounded and 500 prisoners, a total loss of twenty-six hundred men; american losses were only seven killed and six wounded.[48][49] adjutant-general robert butler, in his official report to general jackson a few days after the battle of the 8th, placed the losses of the british at 700 killed, 1400 wounded, and 500 prisoners - the total of 2600 casualties was almost one third the entire number the enemy admitted to have taken part in the contest of the day. After the battle was over, around 500 british soldiers who had pretended to be dead rose up and surrendered to the americans. One bugle boy climbed a tree within 200 yards of the american line and played throughout the battle, with shooting whizzing around him. He was captured after the battle and considered a hero by the americans.

... Jackson's army of 4,732 men comprised 968 us army regulars,[33] 58 us marines (holding the center of the defensive line), 106 seamen of the us naval battalion, 1,060 louisiana militia and volunteers (including 462 free people of color), 1,352 tennessee militia, 986 kentucky militia, 150 mississippi militia and 52 choctaw warriors, along with a force of the pirate jean lafitte's baratarians.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/battle_of_new_orleans

are you really contending that militia from the states of tennessee, kentucky, mississippi, and louisiana (3548 out of a force of 4732 men) weren't preponderantly hunters proficient with rifles ffs?!? Are you even familiar with the fact that squirrel hunting was a ubiquitous pastime in those heavily wooded areas, and continues to be popular to this day??? Christ on a crutch, stick to what you know man...whatever that is. In any case, excepting german and swiss immigrants with a longstanding heritage of rifle marksmanship, ex military men from europe wouldn't have used anything but muskets, not rifles. Only a modern european ignorant of the specifics of american history (and an englishman with a long heritage of antipathy towards private arms ownership in particular) would bloviate such twaddle about "myth".

It's a right close contest between frenchmen and englishmen to see who can be more arrogant in assuming their superiority. At least the french show some charm and grace in the process. Englishmen simply stretch out their jaws and insist that they are correct... how tedious. Post your citations or take a pass.
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